I didn't make a video tonight, but I did drop my Glock with Skimmer ~3' onto my garage floor, making sure it landed frame-first.
The trigger bar did drop from the force of the impact, releasing the striker. I repeated the experiment with the same results.
So now you'd just be counting on the firing pin safety to do its job. Releasing the striker via an armorer tool through the rear armorer cover plate while a pencil rests against the breechface does not launch the pencil.
Thank you for reporting your findings, vandal.
If anyone still wants to take the gamble of disabling 1 of the 3 internal safeties, that is their choice to make, but I think 167 makes a great point:
Vandal's test shows this to be a repeatable result: that dropping the Skimmer-equipped weapon can trip the trigger bar. The firing pin block keeps the weapon from firing, but that does not negate the fact that the trigger is then dead.Originally Posted by 167
Given this, I think it would be prudent for GlockTriggers to move the Skimmer from their "Duty/Carry" section to their "Competition" section, as well as revise the statement on their website that says,
That statement simply is not true.Our modifications will in no way defeat the safety features provided by the Glock factory pistol.
I'd strongly suggest you call Jeff to discuss your results. His number has been listed in this thread already.
There have been some strong statements made in this thread (some of which appear to have some validity). I know folks want the maker to come online and publicly discuss the product. However, has anyone that actually owns the product (or is actually considering purchasing the product) called him on the telephone to discuss their concerns?
I GUARANTEE you he will be open to discussion and will make it right with you, whatever "right" is determined to be. I think it's only fair to give him the opportunity to respond to criticism (from actual owners) rather than just discussing it online.
Thanks for going through the trouble of testing it.
Clearly there's an issue, here...and with those kind of reports I wouldn't install one of these things in my pistol.
Wow, with this kind of info available that is easily testable/repeatable, I'm kind of shocked that Haley still has these available to the public. To me, it seems like a HUGE risk and full of potential law suits.
http://thedownzerojourney.wordpress.com/
OT... May i just know if the skimmer has an overtravel?
pre travel is fine, but what i want is a clean break with no/negligible overtravel.
There is no change to overtravel.
VolGrad,
I think this is a little past "making it right" and offering refunds to the folks that have been vocal online (and then presumably hoping this thread will go away).
Rather than begging those folks to contact Jeff, I'd think he'd want to respond here and head off (if possible) some pretty bad publicity. Instead, we have you trying to stave off public criticism here for your friend, and it's not working.
It's only a matter of time until M4carbine gets spun back up and all the other forums start discussing the safety of these triggers, too, if they aren't already.
IMO, it will be telling if he doesn't respond publicly to these criticisms. It's usually a bad sign when companies clam up after this sort of stuff.
(Full disclosure: I don't own a Glock or a Skimmer trigger. I don't care if Haley or Jeff make a million dollars selling triggers for $500 a piece. I do perk up at the thought of unsafe safe products being sold.)
Last edited by Leozinho; 05-10-2012 at 01:57 PM.
Not speaking for Jeff .... but if I were in his shoes ....
I'd have reservations about going online and publicly commenting/debating with folks that have already made up their minds about my product. Now, if I had actual customers (and not just folks talking on the Internet) that were concerned about a product they purchased from me ... concerned enough to contact me ... then I'd address it head on in an honest & frank manner. I wouldn't care much about the folks that are vocal online unless they were dissatisfied customers.
Lots of companies sell products that become controversial for one reason or another. I never see them coming online to debate forum people. I never even see anyone call them out for for not participating in public debate either. They generally are only expected to address issues from their customers who contact them directly.
I've read the full M4C thread and it was pointed out by Bowie and several others this kind of mod has been around for a long time. It's pretty common it seems. Why hasn't it become an issue before now? I suspect it has something to do with the high profile nature of the Travis Haley association.
DISCLAIMER: I don't own a Skimmer either. I do understand the safety concerns though. My main issue and reason I keep posting in this thread isn't to defend the kit itself or claim it's 100% safe. Hell, I can't say that. I don't know. I've never even seen one in person. The reason I keep posting is I don't want to see Jeff bashed publicly for something he will freely discuss with anyone who calls him ..... but hasn't .... rather than getting into a public debate.
Never mind the people that already bought the trigger and now complain, which is all you are concerned with. (Presumably they will be offered them a refund and presumably you hope they keep their criticism offline.)
What about potential customers that are reading this thread? If the owner doesn't want to respond to criticism, he will lose a lot of potential customers. That's why I say that failing to address the criticism will be very telling. If the trigger doesn't disactivate the drop safety, then why in the world would the president of the company not come out and say so and try to keep future sales???
I'm actually thinking of something on the lines of Ford/Firestone rollover controversy in 2000 - Not some internet beef of ARF.com. (Should only people that bought an Explorer and contacted Ford have a right to question why they were rolling over so frequently?) Clamming up (and not informing the NHTSA and offering a recall) cost both companies a lot in litigation, I believe. How much they lost in future sales as the buying public lost confidence can only be imagined.
You could be right. Maybe it is the Travis Haley association that got this trigger more scrutiny. There's no doubt Haley has some haters. BUT there's no doubt Glocktriggers sold more of those unit or believed they'd sell more units because Haley endorsed it. So you have to take the good with the bad.
It may be a case that this mod is no different than other mods, but then the statement that no safeties have been compromised would be untrue.
Has Jeff been bashed publicly? Yes, his trigger has been maligned. But who is bashing him?
Last edited by Leozinho; 05-10-2012 at 03:39 PM.
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