Here's my two cents.
Irons on a red dot carry gun are there for ONLY one purpose, and that's the have another way to aim should your dot go bad. If your using the irons to help you find your dot your doing it way wrong.
Here's my two cents.
Irons on a red dot carry gun are there for ONLY one purpose, and that's the have another way to aim should your dot go bad. If your using the irons to help you find your dot your doing it way wrong.
i used to wannabe
David, while the relative difference in movement between slide and frame mounted dots influences dot movement between shots, it shouldn't effect initial acquisition.Originally Posted by vcdgrips
As Luke references, I believe BUIS are there for a carry gun, but strike me as a crutch that only distracts from learning how to quickly find the dot. It would be fun to test some shooters learning the dot without installed BUIS, and another group with BUIS, and see where performance is after some experience.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
George,
Certainly on a defensive gun I agree they should be there as a backup at least, if not for assisting in acquisition. I know that other places one would be "burned at the stake" for suggesting that BUIS weren't necessary.
But short of using shooters with essentially no experience how would you sort out any biased results based on the shooters previous experience with iron sights only?
The concept of using the entire window seems like a perfectly valid approach since if the target is centrally framed in the window the dot is likely to be there. Our eyes tend to like to try to center things in such framed openings (e.g. ghost ring sights) enhancing the technique.
Is there a difference between someone highly trained with iron sights to have them aligned on target and transitioning to the dot as the irons come into alignment where the dot may or may not be closer to what is being aimed at, as opposed to the same shooter framing the target in the optic window and transitioning to the dot without the irons to guide them?
I don't have a clue myself but the question occurred to me.
FFL Type 01
"I have learned that wisdom can be as simple as substituting facts for assumptions."
Mark, not sure.
There are two common approaches to shooting a red dot.
1) The Suarez, draw to the BUIS, and find the dot approach.
2) The USPSA, learn to find the dot, without BUIS. Those shooters almost exclusively, have extensive iron sight experience, yet still elect to omit BUIS, even on their CO pistols.
Next time I get a chance, I may turn my dot off and see what kind of results I get just centering my target in the frame of the DP Pro display.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
Considering the cover of Steve Anderson's "Get to Work" shows a shot timer with .79 on it (turning draw with an open gun) I don't think there's a speed disadvantage.
It does take practice, and a solid body index. But then again, being really fast with irons takes the same thing.
Many people over aim with a dot, because it's showing you a lot more of the gun's movement that you wouldn't otherwise be able to see with irons.
A very long time ago when we started hanging red dots on USPSA competition pistols, the common theme was finding the dot. This was before C Mores and the original popular dots seemed to be "tube" Aimpoint and Tasco ProPoints. A common technique at the time was to press out the pistol and use the "tube" to begin the acquisition and the dot was usually "there".
"Over-aiming" is what TGO pointed out to me, when I asked why I was slower to shot one with the dot. That fixed it for good.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
That method is part of what Jerry Barnhart was teaching in his video series. He used a muzzle high drive of the gun with the rear coming up toward full extension and using the top knob as an intermediate guide like a rough front sight. I recently converted the VHS tapes over to dvd and remember that part of it.
If you can't draw your pistol with your eyes closed and then open them once it's out in front of you and the dot be there without any moving, you need some dry fire. I wouldn't expect anybody new to them to be able to find the dot immediately, but even a short dry fire session should straighten things out.
i used to wannabe
Funny you should mention that...I found that I was getting some kinda shitty groups because I focused more on keeping the dot steady than I was on keeping the trigger press smooth and accepting the "wobble zone"...is that what the whole "over aiming" thing is about?
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