Quick acquisition of the slide mounted red dot on a pistol

[MisterHelix]

I have very little time on these and just the normal draw to index and it was there. I was terrifically impressed although I can't compare it to a higher MOS mount.

JHC's experiences mirror my own.

I've used a Trijicon RMR on a milled slide for my EDC for the last six years, and in my experience, the above statement accurately reflect the fastest and most reliable method for acquisition of the dot.

For me, the key is "index", with no focus on the visual plane surrounding the pistol at all.

It's been a while, but I think when I first started using the RMR, I was trying to locate off the front sight, with inconsistent results. I went back to training with irons, and practicing a consistent draw stroke and mechanical index, using the irons only for confirmation of POA after the draw was complete. When I returned to the RMR'ed pistol, the dot appears like magic, superimposed on the target, on which I have a hard focus.

(Edit: the above is strictly my personal experience and opinion, I am not a firearms trainer or expert, or competitor, or HSLD operator of any sort)

[John91]

Is the height of the MOS an issue or is it negligible? I am trying to decide between picking up a atom slide from unity tactical or the MOS. Getting an MOS would be nice because I would have a whole new pistol, but I will buy the Atom if it is worth it for faster acquisition of the dot. Thanks for your advice in advance, this will be my first time using a red dot on a pistol.


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[Bart Carter]

Is the height of the MOS an issue or is it negligible?...

I just did a course with about 600 rounds with a Leupold DP Pro. As compared to my Vortex Viper, it sits appreciably higher. My current thoughts are that for me, the lower the better. It may be fine if you sight in for a particular distance, but I find that the Viper is pretty much on for all distances that I shoot. Just shooting the thoracic, does not matter. I also can sight in faster with a dot that is close to the height of iron sights.

Of course this is my point of view, what works for another or what another may train for can be completely different.

[Oukaapie]

I did a Super Dave course last year with my Sig P320C with RMR and found going front sight first would deliver the dot as fast as finding my rear sight.

[YVK]

For me, the key is "index", with no focus on the visual plane surrounding the pistol at all.

I think you're absolutely right. People who I know to be the fastest with this often times don't even have visible irons or any irons on their optic guns.
I think GJM's idea bridges the gap since optic's housing is big enough that it can be seen in periphery, without a hard focus shift. That said, for me (with my limited exposure to this), index works the best, and I find that not being spastic at the end of presentation and stopping the gun smoothly makes it or breaks it as well.

[Surf]

Some quick observations. I have a new slide and suppressor sights. The rear sight is in front of the optic which I am not sure if the concept is correct or not. I definitely think my eye isn't as easily drawn to the rear sight, but I don't have enough reps to have come to a conclusion yet. I think the DP on this set up can actually use standard types of sights that will create less clutter in the window and I will try a standard sight install to test it out.

In any case I started using various methods mentioned with mixed results. I started feeling like a natural index was producing the best or quickest results. I had zero luck with the front sight staying on the slide without loctite and letting it cure. So I took off the front sight and indeed for myself, the natural index seemed to work best. Not necessarily driving the dot to the front sights or framing the target in the window of the optic, but just relying on my natural index. Now of course index is a refined thing and comes more natural or repeatable with repetition, experience and skill, so that needs to be accounted for.

I found that one handed presentations were indeed complex. Primary shooting hand not too bad, but support side was indeed frustrating. No amount of framing in the window worked and my refined or natural index isn't as repeatable. So I did find a necessity to drive the red dot to the sights. Again however when I removed the front sight this became more problematic and a closer index to the eye with a pressout technique was necessary to be more consistent.

Of course I will need quite a bit more work to iron things out and I am still trying various methods.

[Jim Watson]

I think you're absolutely right. People who I know to be the fastest with this often times don't even have visible irons or any irons on their optic guns.
.

A friend has gone all dot, no iron sights whatsoever on his current pistol. He thinks they are a distraction.

[Redhat]

Some quick observations. I have a new slide and suppressor sights. The rear sight is in front of the optic which I am not sure if the concept is correct or not. I definitely think my eye isn't as easily drawn to the rear sight, but I don't have enough reps to have come to a conclusion yet. I think the DP on this set up can actually use standard types of sights that will create less clutter in the window and I will try a standard sight install to test it out.

In any case I started using various methods mentioned with mixed results. I started feeling like a natural index was producing the best or quickest results. I had zero luck with the front sight staying on the slide without loctite and letting it cure. So I took off the front sight and indeed for myself, the natural index seemed to work best. Not necessarily driving the dot to the front sights or framing the target in the window of the optic, but just relying on my natural index. Now of course index is a refined thing and comes more natural or repeatable with repetition, experience and skill, so that needs to be accounted for.

I found that one handed presentations were indeed complex. Primary shooting hand not too bad, but support side was indeed frustrating. No amount of framing in the window worked and my refined or natural index isn't as repeatable. So I did find a necessity to drive the red dot to the sights. Again however when I removed the front sight this became more problematic and a closer index to the eye with a pressout technique was necessary to be more consistent.

Of course I will need quite a bit more work to iron things out and I am still trying various methods.

So is the problem not picking up the RDS in your periphery vision as you draw?

[Norville]

Another vote for index. It seems slow finding the dot at first if you are hunting for it. At this level, cowitnessed irons help. After some more dry fire, the dot just "appears" on the target. My current USPSA setup is a G34 MOS with DP Pro. It sits higher than the RMR on a Suarez slide but at this point it is just as fast, maybe faster.

If we are talking purely gaming, when was the last time you saw back up sights on an Open class gun?

[vcdgrips]

I confess I am at the edge of my lane on this topic- Norville, while I concur that you do not typically see BUIS on an Open Gun, the red dot is also not slide mounted and is therefore not moving, nearly as much as the set ups being discussed above such that some type of BUIS for many shooters is key.