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Thread: AAR: Gabe White: Pistol Shooting Solutions - Watkinsville, GA April 1st, 2nd

  1. #11
    Member GuanoLoco's Avatar
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    Something else. My USPSA skills carried me in SOME of the drills. But before I could start feeling that good about it or that I was going to have an easy go of it he would introduce a drill that was not in my norm. Ask me to move left/right while drawing and shooting, no problem. Start asking me to talk or toss a distraction at the same time and my so-called technical skills immedaitely started failing me.

    Apparently I can walk or chew gum, but I can only do both once I have considered the value of doing both and the same time, and then devoting some PRACTICE to it.

    As a similar example, I can shoot on the move very well in many ways requried in sporting matches. It is something I specifically practice and is usually an advantage for me. Those skills were useful, but nto nearly as useful as I hoped when I tried to break into a sprint left or right, draw and shoot. I was repeatedly humbled when other shooters in the class were repeatedly making shots on steel in competitive drills and I was making dirt clods into puffs of dust. I guess I need to expand my practice to include things that you might want to execute well in the real world, but that perhaps aren't of as much value in a match.

    I think the discussion of human factors and the capabilties of an uninhibited, mortivated yet untrained opponent were sobering.

    I have seen this in practice many times. Go catch some n00b unawares on the paintball field at point blank range and say 'surrender' vs. putting a welt on his/her back. Damn if I haven't seen that untrained, adrenaline fueled n00b spin like a B-grade movie star and put a shot between the eyes of myself and my team mates more times than I could even believe. You cannot underestimate the raw performance of others - untrained or not - especially if they have zero compunction about where any stray rounds may hit.

    Yes I am a gamer by day, but I pretty much always carry and like to stay in touch with my inner Timmie.

    Thanks for the tactical wake-up call, Gabe!
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  2. #12
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    During the shooting from cover in various contorted positions I was stupified to see the degradation of my accuracy from shooting from leaning out, crouched positions. It took quite some concentration to get back into the A zone. This will be contemplated and practiced pronto.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  3. #13
    It's going to be several days at the earliest before I can put together a formal review, but I made notes throughout the class on my phone. They are in sort of a running dialog format; so, some of it may not make sense to anyone but me. Also, I didn't go through to correct any misspellings or auto correct issues:



    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  4. #14
    Member GuanoLoco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    During the shooting from cover in various contorted positions I was stupified to see the degradation of my accuracy from shooting from leaning out, crouched positions. It took quite some concentration to get back into the A zone. This will be contemplated and practiced pronto.
    I have a fair amount of experience with this shooting the old IDPA Classifier, Specifically Stage 3 with 20 yard shots from a barrel stack as cover and 15 yard shots from a signle barrel low cover and kneeling. In that case it's all about time, accuracy and rules (no lower body exposure, 50% of upper body, limited positional changes) and only faux tactically 'correct'.

    A) Shooting from cover, especially at distance is simply harder. Try it. I watched many of my fellow students struggle with this.

    B) Shooting from cover is DIFFERENT and MUCH HARDER when you are actively trying to minimize the amount of your carcass exposed, the amount of time it is exposed, when randomly shifting your position between shot pairs, and REALLY trying to maintain 8" circle hits.

    Technical skills AND tactical superiority both matter.
    Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Doodie Project?

  5. #15
    Site Supporter Lon's Avatar
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    I like this:

    Increased technical skills supports tactical effectiveness
    There's a quote about gunfights/battles/armed confrontations in a John Ringo book I've never forgotten that goes along the same line:

    He that laughs last (in a gunfight), thinks fastest.
    I wish more of my co-workers would buy into this philosophy. Sadly, only 25% of them ever shoot anytime other than when they have to.
    Formerly known as xpd54.
    The opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect the opinions or policies of my employer.
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  6. #16
    Leopard Printer Mr_White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    During the shooting from cover in various contorted positions I was stupified to see the degradation of my accuracy from shooting from leaning out, crouched positions. It took quite some concentration to get back into the A zone. This will be contemplated and practiced pronto.
    F with the upper body shooting structure, it Fs with you.
    Technical excellence supports tactical preparedness
    Lord of the Food Court
    http://www.gabewhitetraining.com

  7. #17
    Leopard Printer Mr_White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlw View Post
    It's going to be several days at the earliest before I can put together a formal review, but I made notes throughout the class on my phone. They are in sort of a running dialog format; so, some of it may not make sense to anyone but me. Also, I didn't go through to correct any misspellings or auto correct issues:





    jlw sent me these notes earlier, and I think they are very representative of what I said. There is one point of clarification that I offered to him, and would like to share here:

    A nuance that I meant to say, but may not really come across in one sentence, is that anything that happens to be noticed during the doink doink doink that's relevant to an ongoing judgment about the use of force, should be acted upon (maybe stopping shooting.) That level of decisionmaking can and should be going on 100% of the time. Where I said "go back to decisionmaking", I mean as the primary task from a vision-unobstructed ready position with finger in register. During the shooting though, we need to have the gun mounted and be carrying out the sighted shooting as our primary task, which is going to necessarily obstruct our vision and some of what we would see with the gun dismounted, probably until we get to the big signal to return the primary task to decisionmaking (the threat falls/turns/exits the sights, though even that can be subject to perception of threat moving to cover or running facing away while firing back at us.)

    During the shooting we are shooting, not looking, but if we notice something, act on it. After we get done shooting and maybe noticing, go back to more pure looking.
    Technical excellence supports tactical preparedness
    Lord of the Food Court
    http://www.gabewhitetraining.com

  8. #18
    To go along with Gabe's explanation above, the Force Science folks have researched this issue. The same amount of time that it takes to start an action is the same amount of time it takes to stop an action. See their article about shots in the back.

    In a sense, we are always shooting at the past.

    To tie that in with HiTS teachings on on the subject of split times, if you are pushing, pushing, pushing to get the fastest possible splits, one result of that may be more shots fired after threat has ceased. Loop that back to Gabe's firing an accurate shot versus more shots.
    Last edited by jlw; 04-04-2017 at 12:44 PM.
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  9. #19
    Member martin_j001's Avatar
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    I just want to chime in and say that I am truly impressed by this community...class ended two days ago, and the teaching and learning continues. A sincere thank you to those at this site that do this and make this possible.

    I've got some notes too, I'll run them by Gabe and post them up eventually, if anyone cares to see them.
    Jeff Martin
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  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by martin_j001 View Post
    I just want to chime in and say that I am truly impressed by this community...class ended two days ago, and the teaching and learning continues. A sincere thank you to those at this site that do this and make this possible.

    I've got some notes too, I'll run them by Gabe and post them up eventually, if anyone cares to see them.
    I would like to see them. We all mine our own nuggets.
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

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