Wayne Dobbs Interview

[Wayne Dobbs]

Something that's worried me for a good while...how does one train to sort out the no-shoots and background in those few seconds?

One important way is to train to a level of subconscious competence (John Hearne calls it "automaticity") so that your shooting tasks aren't cognitive skills requirements. In essence, as John Helms or Scotty Reitz characterized it, you're "problem solving with a pistol". That means you're in a cognitive, not emotional mode, during the encounter and are conscious of the background and surroundings before and during the encounter. You should "war game" it every day as you move about. For the next several weeks, several times a day, pick out a location and see a deadly encounter there. Look at the positions of advantage, cover, light, terrain, traffic patterns, etc. and see what problems are presented and how you'd deal with them. You'll see those background problems more clearly and more reflexively. You can set up static problems on the range with no shoots, surroundings issues and background problems and work them. Start out static and then do lateral movements around the problems to gain more advantage, to clear surroundings and background issues and just because it's likely you'll move during an encounter. Oh...and don't muzzle those no shoots as you move and as you move the gun around. That's a whole new world of consciousness for many folks.

[SeriousStudent]

Wayne, for the last two years I have been follow your and Darryl's advice. I follow that "game planning" methodology every time I go to the gas station, grocery store, ATM and the local Stop 'N Rob. It helps a great deal.

It would be awesome if you gents would again offer that Counter-Robbery class you did two years ago. That was very mentally demanding on the problem-solving and accuracy work. It was also one of the most fun days I have ever had on a pistol range.

[BJJ]

I am also interested in a counter robbery class. I am willing to travel from out of state to attend.

[Dagga Boy]

Wayne, for the last two years I have been follow your and Darryl's advice. I follow that "game planning" methodology every time I go to the gas station, grocery store, ATM and the local Stop 'N Rob. It helps a great deal.

It would be awesome if you gents would again offer that Counter-Robbery class you did two years ago. That was very mentally demanding on the problem-solving and accuracy work. It was also one of the most fun days I have ever had on a pistol range.

I am also interested in a counter robbery class. I am willing to travel from out of state to attend.

October 14/15 in Dallas with Lone Star Medics. Let me talk to Caleb to get registration up on one of our websites.

[John Hearne]

Something that's worried me for a good while...how does one train to sort out the no-shoots and background in those few seconds?

Two factors that a lot of folks underestimate - how bad it can be (speed of violence, uninhibited attacker, etc.) and how much work you have to do (in advance) to be prepared.

Just like with target discrimination, proper shot placement, or the use of cover - you practice the processing of no-shoots and background on a regular basis when nobody is trying to kill you. This way, they are second nature and don't require many mental resources. For instance, when you're standing in-line at the convenience store, figure out how you'd shoot the guy at the counter as safely as possible. If you regularly go to the same places, figure out if there are any safe backstops.

The big myth is that you can "orient" on the fly in a dynamic personal encounter. If that's you're plan, you're probably going to fail. What you need to do is to build and store a collection of "pre-orientations" that are relevant to your life and your problems so that you can access them quickly when you need them.

[Redhat]

Two factors that a lot of folks underestimate - how bad it can be (speed of violence, uninhibited attacker, etc.) and how much work you have to do (in advance) to be prepared.

Just like with target discrimination, proper shot placement, or the use of cover - you practice the processing of no-shoots and background on a regular basis when nobody is trying to kill you. This way, they are second nature and don't require many mental resources. For instance, when you're standing in-line at the convenience store, figure out how you'd shoot the guy at the counter as safely as possible. If you regularly go to the same places, figure out if there are any safe backstops.

The big myth is that you can "orient" on the fly in a dynamic personal encounter. If that's you're plan, you're probably going to fail. What you need to do is to build and store a collection of "pre-orientations" that are relevant to your life and your problems so that you can access them quickly when you need them.

Have you ever heard of anyone training this with sims? And to throw another variable in...what happens when the fight starts and panic causes bystanders to start running in all directions (active shooter)?

[Sauer Koch]

Have you ever heard of anyone training this with sims? And to throw another variable in...what happens when the fight starts and panic causes bystanders to start running in all directions (active shooter)?

Yeah, with people running in all directions, that seems like a no-win situation; total chaos!

[John Hearne]

Have you ever heard of anyone training this with sims? And to throw another variable in...what happens when the fight starts and panic causes bystanders to start running in all directions (active shooter)?

I've seen video of a training exercise where the shooter was confronted by a bunch - at least a dozen - of moving, live role players. At some point, one of them would produce a weapon and the shooter was required to engage as appropriate. If you read Paul Howe's books, he specifically discussing training threat ID with large number of targets in a room.

[psalms144.1]

Have you ever heard of anyone training this with sims? And to throw another variable in...what happens when the fight starts and panic causes bystanders to start running in all directions (active shooter)?

We do, using airsoft, rather than Sims (resource issue, mostly). I can tell you, doing active shooter drills for most of a week in the same building with a variety of threats is one thing. Doing it "live" with Airsoft and 40-50 screaming innocents and bleeding victims REALLY changes the dynamic. Then add in some smoke, loud pyrotechnics to simulate gunfire, and you're really cooking with gasoline...

[psalms144.1]

I've seen video of a training exercise where the shooter was confronted by a bunch - at least a dozen - of moving, live role players. At some point, one of them would produce a weapon and the shooter was required to engage as appropriate. If you read Paul Howe's books, he specifically discussing training threat ID with large number of targets in a room.

I've been through something like this in "hooded box" drills. You're geared up for Sims, put in a "stand here" start box, and a dark hood lowered over your head. Instructor lifts the hood and it's game on. Sometimes contact distance threat with a knife, sometimes an innocent asking directions with a map in hand, sometimes a mob of attackers, sometimes BGs shooting innocents - the possibilities are endless. Surprising how your ability to think goes to $h1+ in a hurry, and how everything starts looking like a threat after the hood comes off and you're in the middle of being stabbed a few times.

Even better when, after the hood's down, the instructor says "don't react" and the next thing you know your pistol is gone, skittering across the floor, the hood comes up, and there's three bruisers ready to pounce you. Good times, and lots of motrin...