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Thread: Am I the only one who finds this ironic - dropping a gun?

  1. #31
    Member cclaxton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF13 View Post
    More irony, with you trying to accuse me of making strawman arguments, after your very first post did just that with the nonsense about USPSA, when I was clearly talking about IDPA.
    More irony, and strawman arguments from YOU. I've never suggested it was OK to catch a falling gun. Quite the opposite, I've said it's unsafe to do so, but that Rule 2.3 encourages people to attempt to catch their guns, because that might be considered unsafe, but might not be, since a 2.2 DQ is just a judgment call from the SO, but actually dropping the gun (with it actually hitting the ground being absolute proof of that) will definitely result in a DQ. Therefore there is an incentive to try to keep the gun from hitting the ground to avoid the absolute proof that Rule 2.3 was violated, and getting the definite DQ.Where exactly did I say it wasn't? That's rhetorical, because I didn’t say, or even imply, any such thing, but we’ve already established that it’s actually you that is fond of strawman arguments.
    It's pretty clear you don't understand the meaning of a straw man argument: "A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent."

    You are the one who set up a fallacy that IDPA supports unsafe gun-handling and encourages people to catch a falling gun. No official has ever advanced an argument that catching a falling or dropped gun would avoid a DQ....YOU advanced that fallacy. You then used that fallacy to attempt to ridicule IDPA. When I brought up USPSA, it was in the form of a question, not a statement. I was curious where such a ridiculous idea would be coming from. A RO/SO's job is to watch the gun. We KNOW when that gun leaves the shooters hands or when they lose control. We don't wait to see if the gun hit the ground. Most of the time the SO/RO will say STOP before the gun even hits the ground. As JoshS pointed out, the words matter when it comes to the rules. The rule says dropping or causing a gun to fall is a DQ. It does NOT say "allowing a gun to hit the ground."

    I then confirmed this understanding with both the USPSA Director and with a SWAT team officer. I am a IDPA official, and I can tell you for certain that no rule clarification is necessary...the rule is VERY CLEAR: Dropping a gun or causing it fall is a DQ....attempting to catch it after it has been dropped (and you have earned the DQ) is more dangerous than simply letting it fall. That was the point in the tactical journal.

    Just admit you were wrong and stop this foolishness.
    Cody
    That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state;

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by cclaxton View Post
    I have seen one instance where it was incredibly unfair. I once had a shooter who saw an unpasted target, and while running to paste it (before the next shooter had started, of course), her gun popped out..unloaded, of course. She had been having a great match.
    But, being safe means making certain sacrifices.
    Cody
    As much as that specific DQ sucks for that shooter, I have absolutely no issue with it.

    If your gun just falls out of your holster while you are running, or gets knocked out by being brushed up against a chair, then the holster had poor retention. Such a holster is unsuitable for concealed carry and therefore unsuitable for IDPA.

    The fact that someone can get DQ'd by having a holster with poor retention, encourages people to use holsters with sufficient tension, which is otherwise kind of hard to regulate.

  3. #33
    Member Peally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo_man View Post
    Because so many, especially here, have expounded on the major relevance that gaming has with self defense, especially skill sets required to "not get killed on the streetz" and then we have this completely pointless thread on something only gamers would have conversations about.

    So either gaming is totally relevant to self defense shooting skillset or it is not. You cannot have it both ways.
    It's not 100% magical relevant self defense training and no one is fucking claiming that. It's a game, it has rules, the rules will be discussed. Use some common sense and get off the pointless crusade horse.

    Fundamentals have a stake in self defense and everything else you can do with a firearm, and this is one of 20 ways to effectively test basic skills.
    Last edited by Peally; 04-01-2017 at 11:43 AM.
    Semper Gumby, Always Flexible

  4. #34
    Member orionz06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo_man View Post
    So either gaming is totally relevant to self defense shooting skillset or it is not. You cannot have it both ways.
    Shooting well is relevant. Games are a way to develop shooting skills and grow as a shooter.

    Dropping guns is bad, games or not. If you're at a match it's Dairy Queen, if you're super-ninja it's still not cool.
    Think for yourself. Question authority.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo_man View Post
    Because so many, especially here, have expounded on the major relevance that gaming has with self defense, especially skill sets required to "not get killed on the streetz" and then we have this completely pointless thread on something only gamers would have conversations about.

    So either gaming is totally relevant to self defense shooting skillset or it is not. You cannot have it both ways.
    But youre a whole lot less likely to get sent home from tactical timmy day camp for dropping a gun than a match


    And reading you're previous posts I know you're a lot brighter than anyone who woukd belive this post
    #weaktroll 4/10
    Last edited by BigT; 04-01-2017 at 12:26 PM.
    Welcome to Africa, bring a hardhat.

  6. #36
    Oh no, looks like I hit the gamer nerve again.

    How dare I speak negatively of your beloved game with all the rules that come with it.

    You what doesn't have rules? Reality.

    This entire topic and thread is completely rhetorical and completely limited to gaming. So please if you have this problem, you likely have a problem with how reality works.

    Go ahead and turn up that butthurt, I'll put my flame suit on.
    VDMSR.com
    Chief Developer for V Development Group
    Everything I post I do so as a private individual who is not representing any company or organization.

  7. #37
    Member orionz06's Avatar
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    If a majority of the rounds you fire are not against 100% independently thinking people who wish to do you harm and are equipped to do so you're gaming one way or another. That's reality.
    Think for yourself. Question authority.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by orionz06 View Post
    If a majority of the rounds you fire are not against 100% independently thinking people who wish to do you harm and are equipped to do so you're gaming one way or another. That's reality.
    Yeeahhh no. Games have rules, like the topic of this thread states.

    Less dogma more reality.
    VDMSR.com
    Chief Developer for V Development Group
    Everything I post I do so as a private individual who is not representing any company or organization.

  9. #39
    Member orionz06's Avatar
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    dog·ma
    ˈdôɡmə/
    noun
    a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.
    Where?
    Think for yourself. Question authority.

  10. #40
    Member cclaxton's Avatar
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    Safe gun handling goes beyond gaming. When it comes to gun handling, gun safety rules are true everywhere, even in combat.
    Maybe not in Russia.
    Cody
    That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state;

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