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Thread: Am I the only one who finds this ironic - dropping a gun?

  1. #11
    I think this falls into the category of a friendly reminder to not try and catch a falling gun. Maybe somewhere someone tried it and had an nd or maybe it's spring and people are starting back at it and someone thought it wise to remind folks of something we rarely think about.

    Even if there were no specific rule against it doing so would be bad juju. I'd rather deal with a DQ than a bullet in the noggen or the SO's noggen.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by cclaxton View Post
    There is no judgement call of trying to catch a falling gun. If the gun leaves your hands in the shooting area, it was dropped, and you will be DQ'D. I am pretty sure that is the same for USPSA.

    You have made up a straw man argument.

    I don't see a straw argument, he is absolutely right.

    We tell everyone they'll be going home if they dropped their guns, both USPSA and IDPA. Because rules.
    At the tame time we tell everyone that trying to catch a falling gun is a nonono. Because nobody wants to be shot.

    Last time I saw a shooter catch a gun was during my second to last match. First stage of the match, sitting start, his 2011 got snatched by a chair, dude caught it and went on shooting. If he hadn't done it, he would've been DQ'd without shooting a single round in a match.

    DQ'ing for a dropped gun is dumb. Considering costs and time investments going into attending matches, shooters do not want to let it happen and people do try to catch their gats or keep holding onto them when letting go would be a better decision. Obviously DQ doesn't make anything more or less safe because it happens after the fact. Normal guns don't go off when dropped but, of course, making a requirement that all guns have working drop safeties would be bad for business.
    Last edited by YVK; 03-29-2017 at 09:12 AM.
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  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by DMF13 View Post
    Yes, but the reality of the game is there are real guns, with real ammo, and the concern over people dropping guns is a real issue.True, but accidents can happen, and none of us are infallible, so the rules shouldn't encourage someone to do something unsafe during the accident.
    Game issues for gamers.

    Sorry but this is a self correcting problem.
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  4. #14
    I wonder if SFOD-D, SEAL or SWAT members get booted from training or quals for dropping their guns.
    Last edited by YVK; 03-29-2017 at 09:25 AM.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    I don't see a straw argument, he is absolutely right.

    We tell everyone they'll be going home if they dropped their guns, both USPSA and IDPA. Because rules.
    At the tame time we tell everyone that trying to catch a falling gun is a nonono. Because nobody wants to be shot.

    Last time I saw a shooter catch a gun was during my second to last match. First stage of the match, sitting start, his 2011 got snatched by a chair, dude caught it and went on shooting. If he hadn't done it, he would've been DQ'd without shooting a single round in a match.

    DQ'ing for a dropped gun is dumb. Considering costs and time investments going into attending matches, shooters do not want to let it happen and people do try to catch their gats or keep holding onto them when letting go would be a better decision. Obviously DQ doesn't make anything more or less safe because it happens after the fact. Normal guns don't go off when dropped but, of course, making a requirement that all guns have working drop safeties would be bad for business.
    The he should have been DQed.

    I agree with cclaxton, the "drop" occurs when the shooter no longer has control of the firearm.

    The most common definition for the transitive usage of "drop" is "to let fall : cause to fall." https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/drop#h2

    This is made more clear in the USPSA rules by the exception for placing a firearm on the ground or a solid object.

    "10.5.3 If at any time during the course of fire, or while loading, reloading or
    unloading, a competitor drops his handgun or causes it to fall, loaded or
    not. Note that a competitor who, for any reason during a course of fire,
    safely and intentionally places the handgun on the ground or other
    stable object will not be disqualified provided:
    10.5.3.1 The competitor maintains constant physical contact with the
    handgun, until it is placed firmly and securely on the ground or
    another stable object . . ."

    If you don't "maintain[] constant physical contact with the handgun" then the exception to 10.5.3 doesn't apply.

    As soon as you lose control of the handgun, you should be DQed, so you might as well take safest option at that point and let it fall.

  6. #16
    Member cclaxton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    I don't see a straw argument, he is absolutely right.

    We tell everyone they'll be going home if they dropped their guns, both USPSA and IDPA. Because rules.
    At the tame time we tell everyone that trying to catch a falling gun is a nonono. Because nobody wants to be shot.

    Last time I saw a shooter catch a gun was during my second to last match. First stage of the match, sitting start, his 2011 got snatched by a chair, dude caught it and went on shooting. If he hadn't done it, he would've been DQ'd without shooting a single round in a match.

    DQ'ing for a dropped gun is dumb. Considering costs and time investments going into attending matches, shooters do not want to let it happen and people do try to catch their gats or keep holding onto them when letting go would be a better decision. Obviously DQ doesn't make anything more or less safe because it happens after the fact. Normal guns don't go off when dropped but, of course, making a requirement that all guns have working drop safeties would be bad for business.
    The rule says DROPPING your gun. It does NOT say "letting the gun hit the ground." Just because one guy got away with it does mean he should not have been DQ'd. RO's are not infallible either. It is clearly unsafe to try and catch a gun which has been DROPPED.
    Cody
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  7. #17
    Member orionz06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo_man View Post

    Sorry but this is a self correcting problem.

    Agree, usually they don't drop guns more than once and live to game another day.



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  8. #18
    Member cclaxton's Avatar
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    I have seen one instance where it was incredibly unfair. I once had a shooter who saw an unpasted target, and while running to paste it (before the next shooter had started, of course), her gun popped out..unloaded, of course. She had been having a great match.
    But, being safe means making certain sacrifices.
    Cody
    That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state;

  9. #19
    Member Zincwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    I wonder if SFOD-D, SEAL or SWAT members get booted from training or quals for dropping their guns.
    All tacticool low drag operators know that the best way to catch your gun is to do a complete forward sommersault. That way you can use the forward momentum to do a low drag head shot on those 50 meter targets, just like you meant to do.

  10. #20
    Member cclaxton's Avatar
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    I just checked with the Area 8 USPSA Director. Dropping a gun means the moment it leaves your hands. Trying to catch a falling gun is a DQ. Dropping a gun outside the shooting area is not automatically a DQ as long as the shooter calls an RO to manage the retrieval. Range rules dictate whether it is an ejection at that point.
    Cody
    That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state;

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