Church Security

[Glenn E. Meyer]

FYI if not mentioned.
http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/church-safety
http://www.activeresponsetraining.ne...ch-safety-team

Greg Ellifritz is a great guy and respected. His site has a wealth of info.

--- One thing I noted among some church going friends is the habit of just putting an LCP or Taurus 85 in pocket or purse. While it's better than nothing, they say that clothing prevents better gear. They also tend to be the type who shoot a box every six months. Not to criticize but is this a wake up call for more serious implements and skill set?

[willie]

Banks hire off duty police officers for security. Churches may need to do the same. Even if one might choose not to, I can see good logic in positioning one or two armed members outside to monitor who comes and goes. Long guns could be available in vehicles. Once years ago I worked security in a large church. Each Sunday morning I went from room to room in the upper stories and frequently found bums who had slipped in during the night to hibernate. They did not but could have wreaked havoc had that been their intention.

[JustOneGun]

FYI if not mentioned.
http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/church-safety
http://www.activeresponsetraining.ne...ch-safety-team

Greg Ellifritz is a great guy and respected. His site has a wealth of info.

--- One thing I noted among some church going friends is the habit of just putting an LCP or Taurus 85 in pocket or purse. While it's better than nothing, they say that clothing prevents better gear. They also tend to be the type who shoot a box every six months. Not to criticize but is this a wake up call for more serious implements and skill set?

I agree that people do the, "church gun" thing. Small pocket pistol is a common gun for those who admit to taking one. I've always found this interesting. For me, no matter the season, no one looks twice at a suit or sport coat in church. I understand that we are all different shapes but most can fit a medium or larger pistol under a coat.
Definitely a wake up call for all church goers.

I've never put a lot of thought about a church security plan but having someone like a deacon with a gun seems perfect if it can be set up. They meet everyone outside the sanctuary. And often there's another just inside the sanctuary. There's nothing like having an experienced person in the church at the front door to greet the needy and downtrodden. And there's nothing like having that person prepared to save everyone in the church from the evil and insane that live among us.

[AlwaysLearning]

ISTR Dr. King was not opposed to armed self-defense.

Yup. From an interview with the late, great Don B. Kates

VICE: You describe yourself as a long-time liberal Democrat. So how did you become a gun rights scholar who worked for the NRA?
Don Kates: From my teenage years, I had always had an affection for guns. And when I was a law student, I became a civil rights worker with the Law Students Civil Rights Defense Council, an organization that's probably been defunct for decades.

As a civil rights worker in the South, I carried various guns—as did many other whites in the movement—for protection. And Southern black civil rights activists were almost all armed, since they were largely rural Southerners. I recall one night when I sat watch outside the home of a black teacher who had been threatened along with five or six blacks. I was underarmed since what I had was the ineffectual M1 carbine. I didn't know any better. The blacks with whom I was sitting watch all had shotguns or battle rifles.

The image of gun-toting civil rights activists is one that’s rarely depicted, especially given their reputation of nonviolence. But there were guns around. Even Martin Luther King, Jr. allegedly had an "arsenal" in his home. Why do you think it's not talked about very often?
I assume that is because it would contradict the pacifist image of civil rights activists. The publicity we received came from journalists who were themselves quasi pacifist and antigun, so self-defense and gun ownership were not things they were attuned to, much less what they wanted to portray.
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/n...t-to-bear-arms

There's also Charles Cobb's book, This Nonviolent Stuff'll Get You Killed, which was published by Duke University Press.

Visiting Martin Luther King Jr. during the Montgomery, Alabama, bus boycott, journalist William Worthy almost sat on a loaded pistol. "Just for self-defense," King assured him. It was not the only weapon King kept for such a purpose; one of his advisors remembered the reverend’s Montgomery, Alabama, home as "an arsenal." Like King, many ostensibly "nonviolent" civil rights activists embraced their constitutional right to self-protection—yet this crucial dimension of the Afro-American freedom struggle has been long ignored by history. In This Nonviolent Stuff’ll Get You Killed, Charles E. Cobb Jr. recovers this history, describing the vital role that armed self-defense has played in the survival and liberation of black communities. Drawing on his experiences in the civil rights movement and giving voice to its participants, Cobb lays bare the paradoxical relationship between the nonviolent civil rights struggle and the long history and importance of African Americans taking up arms to defend themselves against white supremacist violence.

Cobb was on the editorial staff of National Geographic before he retired. He wrote the book after retirement.

[CraigS]

A question about where to sit. My wife carries everywhere including church. Typical entrance, double door to the center aisle and a single door on each side to the side aisles. Do you have any suggestions on best seating position? I was thinking last row back so hopefully any action takes place a bit ahead of her. But then she might be one of the first persons a shooter sees. Ideas?

[GuanoLoco]

Yup. From an interview with the late, great Don B. Kates


There's also Charles Cobb's book, This Nonviolent Stuff'll Get You Killed, which was published by Duke University Press.



Cobb was on the editorial staff of National Geographic before he retired. He wrote the book after retirement.

Kates:

I was underarmed since what I had was the ineffectual M1 carbine

The “ineffectual M1 carbine”?

If you consider 15-30 rounds of 30 cal 110 gr RN at 2000 fps in a rather wieldy shoulder-fired configuration ineffectual...

[willie]

If you draw a rectangle to represent the church and place an X to one side at the rear, the armed person in the X seat might have a better angle of fire. I got this idea from having talked to a friend who had been a machine gunner in Vietnam. He said that laying his gun in this manner prevented his having to traverse the weapon from one side to the other. But, would this X position offer an armed person an advantage in a big room like a church? I'm not qualified to say but offer my comments to start the discussion.

[JAD]

I sit as close to the front and as near to center as possible. My family and I are there with the expectation that we will be 99-100% absorbed in what's going on, and if that makes me a bad sheepdog I'm ok with that.

Were something to happen, the commotion would likely start at the back, which gives me the most time to notice it and change gears.

[nalesq]

Regarding positioning, in AMIS (Armed Movement In Structures, another excellent SouthNarc class), you find out pretty quickly that a threat in the hard corner immediately to the left or right of an entryway is easily missed. Accordingly, if you’ve got pews located there, that’s where I’d sit to provide security.


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[scw2]

Regarding positioning, in AMIS (Armed Movement In Structures, another excellent SouthNarc class), you find out pretty quickly that a threat in the hard corner immediately to the left or right of an entryway is easily missed. Accordingly, if you’ve got pews located there, that’s where I’d sit to provide security.

I recall reading a recommendation for the security team to post on person in a rear corner, with the 2nd guy in the opposite corner up front. Seems to mesh with what you're saying, plus with the 2 staggered like that you'd obviously get much greater coverage than just 1 person, or both on the same side.

I sit as close to the front and as near to center as possible. My family and I are there with the expectation that we will be 99-100% absorbed in what's going on, and if that makes me a bad sheepdog I'm ok with that.

Were something to happen, the commotion would likely start at the back, which gives me the most time to notice it and change gears.

I guess where you want to sit will differ whether you are an attendee or if you're there on the security team. I'd think being front/center or another area where you're at a junction with two pathways would give you the most movement options. The biggest downside would be probably way more chaos and less ability to get a clear shot, but if you're there with family your primary consideration is probably to get them out of danger first.

Just spitballing and hopefully those with more experience can chime in on location for people in both situations.