The security team all wear a designated uniform shirt with a security logo on it and they all carry a photo ID. Generally speaking they conceal. We have a couple of cops on the team that have shown up in uniform and open carried but it's not the norm.Originally Posted by TGS
Volunteer. A couple of them are cops and have police authority but the majority are acting as private citizens
Last edited by Cypher; 11-08-2017 at 04:36 PM.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007...Life_shootings
I'm not claiming any expertise here, I'm just sharing my experience. I'm also not claiming to speak for my church. My use of words like "we" or "us" or "our" is a church member not a church leader or spokesperson.
I live in Colorado Springs. The New Life Church Shooting had a major impact on how our church implemented its security plan.
One of the Pastoral staff was a retired cop who's very last call was the NLC shooting so when the church decided to implement a security plan they put him in charge of it.
NLC had a security plan in place before they had their shooting and their plan worked. After the shooting they had a ministry set up to pass on lessons learned to other churches who wanted to implement their own security plan. Our church followed their model closely.
I've recommended this company before Brotherhood Mutual and I'm recommending them again to anyone who is considering implementing a security plan.
https://www.brotherhoodmutual.com/re...urch-security/
It's an insurance company that specializes in church related liability issues and they have a lot of experience consulting with churches on security issues and helping churches set up their programs and instituting training procedures and legality issues.
Our security team operates under they church's liability insurance rider. We keep training records proving that our security team has qualified with their handguns to the same standard as CSPD. That we have training on legal use of force. And that we all understand the church's security policy.
Another thing I want to briefly mention is I've attended two other churches who's idea of a security plan was to ask random parishioners to bring their guns to church. I think that's a really bad idea. They don't know who else is on the "security team". They don't have any form of communications, they don't train together, they're not posted to give maximum coverage ....I could go on.
I've also read a couple of posts on anoTHeR forum by people who appear to have simply appointed themselves as church security without so much as informing or even asking the Senior Pastor. The stupidity of that should be self explanatory.
Carl Chinn talks about his thought process during the shooting at the New Life Church in Colorado Springs (where Jeanne Assam shot the active shooter). Carl says he was armed that day with a Kel Tec .32 and as incoming 5.56 rounds were tearing pieces off the column he was taking cover behind that he thought he might look at upgrading his armament if he survived....
He explains that his security duty was handling security for the pastor and thought a small concealable gun like that would be easiest to carry since if someone attacked the pastor it would be very close.....unfortunately that day the problem was a hi cap rifle armed threat 30 yards away. Fortunately the other members of the team were able to approach without being seen initially and were able to stop him before he maneuvered on Carl's position.
In everyday life I carry a 17 or a 34, or a 17 with the grip cut down to 19 length if concealment is more an issue. In church I carry the same thing. The likelihood of use is small but the problem (potential long shots to the target (or targets) with complex background issues) is likely to be the most difficult shooting problem I'd ever face. Not the time to be rolling with a tiny easy to carry little ballistic pacifier.
I'm going to say this in the politest way I possibly can without any intent to offend. Carl Chinn has stated in a couple of different places that he was right there when Matthew Mary was killed. His is the ONLY witness statement that makes that claim. Niether Jeanne Assam nor Larry Bourbanois (who were both documented to have been in that hall) mention him in their statements.
Beyond that I can only say there were some other discrepancies between what he claimed and what other witnesses stated his behavior was that day.
Last edited by Cypher; 11-08-2017 at 08:22 PM.
No offense taken. And I’ll return the favor and say this as carefully as I can with no offense intended. My point was simply that small guns suck especially at distance vs a rifle. So carry a real gun. If Chinn was being less than truthful that is on him but that is what I heard him tell a room filled with a couple of hundred people. I was not there and have no personal connection with him and if he was being less than truthful that is unfortunate but even if it is it still does not disqualify my point about pocket guns sucking when the threat is actively shooting at distance.
I'll wager you a PF dollar™ 😎
The lunatics are running the asylum
On the subject of what to carry, I'm torn. One side of me says a .380 in the pocket will be better than your 1911 at home if the Bad Thing happens at your church while you're in attendance. The flip side is that your G19 isn't going to be the Finger of God if you're facing down a threat with a long gun wearing body armor. Sometimes you gotta do the best you can with the poop sandwich that lands on your plate.
All in all, I'm in favor of carrying a real gun - but I won't chastise those who don't. Heck, I was carrying just my G43 and a spare magazine this weekend at Mass, and was thinking about getting a more comfortable OWB holster for it as a "church gun;" until I got home and saw the news. I lug my G19 all day every day at work, I can do the same for Mass. Just don't tell my pastor...
The thing is, the .380 or jframe in your pocket would absolutely be better than whatever you left at home, or nothing at all. I think about that fight in the South African church years ago, when a group of rebels armed with AKs came in shooting, and one guy with a Rossi .38 shooting back encouraged them to leave.
He was lucky. If they'd been more committed, or crazier, or whatever, they'd have eaten his lunch.
I've stopped carrying my jframe except for backup, or exercising. I had a G26 and spare mag on Sunday.
I am pretty sure the last time we went to church the two fairly fit looking greeters at door were carrying.
For sure they looked me up and down, and it wasn’t because they were worried about my eternal salvation.
First I'd like to point out that Jeanne Asaam faced down a threat wearing body armor and carrying a long gun with a M9.
The church I go to doesn't dress formally. The pastor teaches in jeans and a T-Shirt in the Summer and jeans and a flannel the rest of the year. I usually wear cargos and a button down so hiding a Glock19 isn't a problem.
Reply With Quote