Church Security

[zuplex]

I'm not sure if this should be in Mindset and Tactics or General Discussion, so mods please move if necessary.

I'm part of a small church that meets in a sketchy part of town. This past Sunday we had a woman come to our service who clearly had substance abuse problems amongst other issues. She entered before the service and was asking people for money. When she didn't get what she wanted she became agitated and left. She came back during the service and I and one of the women in the church met her outside to see what was going on. She had calmed down and joined our service. It worked out well in the end; she caused no disruptions and two of our members gave her a ride to her soster's house (not the move for everyone, I realize, but it ended well).

I was concerned about this incident because we have, as far as I can tell, no security plan or even members designated to assist with medical issues. As far as I know, only I and maybe one other member carry concealed at church, but we don't have a coordinated approach. I emailed our pastors yesterday with questions regarding what plans we do have in place, so hopefully I'll get some sort of answer soon.

I'd like to provide the pastors with some resources that could help them establish a church security/safety team and procedures. For those of you who have been involved with church security or security for similar venues, what resources have you found helpful? How have you overcome objections to having a security team? How have you trained volunteers? What kind of security measures have you put in place for children's areas?

[Zincwarrior]

Be careful. Sometimes legallities come into play when you say "security team." In Texas that was a big issue concerning liability and whether or not it was legal for CHLers to be on it or something (it got complicated).

Having said that, its good to have a plan. Unfortunately church events are a thing that does occur.

[Crusader8207]

At the TacCon there was a session on church security. Steve referenced this organization as a good resource.

http://www.nocssm.org

[rjohnson4405]

So, my understanding when I had a cursory discussion about this with a buddy who worked for the church is that they were happy to have unarmed people with "Security" on their shirts.

But as soon as the church knows you're armed, they now have some assumed liability if they continue to let you carry while a part of their security team.

I gave up then, I'll just attend and carry.

[DAB]

seems to me that the last thing you want to wear is something that says "security". that becomes an "attack me first" outfit. and if the pastor is one who will trust God for everything, he's never going to accept that God gave us guns and brains to stay alive today. and putting up "gun free zone" signs just tells attackers that no one will oppose them, have at it.

[SkippySanchez]

Short answer: Google "Church Security." You mention every concern I brought up to our pastors about 5 years ago and it was well received. I did some research, did my homework, attended a few seminars, asked other churches around town and came up with an initial plan - actually more of an outline - that has evolved into a workable plan.

Be forewarned, the typical emergency risks churches and similar organizations face - medical, severe weather, fire and sexual assault of minors - are exponentially higher than the risk of violence or active shooters. That's not to say it doesn't happen, but people on gun forums tend to gravitate to the more unlikely scenarios while ignoring the most likely.

Shoot me a PM with email and I'll send you some links and an outline of what we've learned. No point for you to reinvent the wheel when others are a step or two further down the road.

Good for you to be concerned. Most churches have no plans and are oblivious to the liability of NOT having a plan. Be prepared for a lot of work and possibly some push-back. Stay prayed up! "The horse is prepared for battle, but the victory belongs to the Lord."

[ImNobody]

So, my understanding when I had a cursory discussion about this with a buddy who worked for the church is that they were happy to have unarmed people with "Security" on their shirts.

But as soon as the church knows you're armed, they now have some assumed liability if they continue to let you carry while a part of their security team.

I gave up then, I'll just attend and carry.

And (as you know) at least in South Carolina you must get permission from the church to carry concealed on its property. Otherwise it is against the law to carry. I asked for and received permission to carry from my church, but they don't have a security team - just lots of LEOs and CWPs. I agree that it is probably better on a liability front to simply not have an armed security detail. That is crazy and counter productive, but that is the way of life in our now lawsuit crazy society.

[mc1911]

Look into the details of getting licensed as armed security guards. In FL, we found a workaround based on seeking legal advice. The conundrum was protecting the church from liability and also dealing with the presence of a school on the grounds. We were told that the law assumes that a school is always a school and therefore even at church on Sunday, the fact that there is a private school there the rest of the week makes carrying a problem.

The security detail that was already extant then pursued security guard licensing based on the experience of another large church in the area that also has a private school. The legal opinion is that by "working" as legitimately armed security, you get around the problem of being on "school grounds". Then the church liability was addressed by working under the license of a security company that was formed by a former church member. So the security guards are "employed" by the security company and serve under that company's liability insurance.

This is all based on legal opinion from a reputable attorney and also correspondence with the Dept. of Agriculture, which is what governs concealed carry in FL. They made it clear that none of this has been tried in court yet, so there is no legal precedent. These recommendations were given as the best course to protect the individuals serving and the church organization.

[David Blinder]

Funny relevant story. Years ago, there was a minister in Memphis who was a big believer in carrying. Someone asked him how a man of God could be comfortable with that. His response was " I carry a bible for those who believe in God and a gun for those who don't!"

[TheNewbie]

My Roman Catholic priest carries. Makes me rather proud.