DA/SA Training

[Mr_White]

Decocking when dismounting is essentially what I was taught in defensive training long ago. Since then I've seen a lot of people do a lot of moving around with a DA/SA gun in SA mode in a competitive context. That prompts me to think more about the defensive doctrine of decocking, though that is still what I would go with. And since no one seems to have brought it up yet - what about an SFA without manual safety? A lot of those guns have triggers that are approximate to a lot of SA triggers, with some extra slack in the front. Obviously, there is no option to decock them, but would we in the defensive world consider it unsafe to move with an SFA in hand? We clearly don't. So that gives me more pause on the defensive doctrine of decocking and prompts me to think about it some more, though that is still what I would go with.

Just a few more thoughts for the discussion!

[GJM]

The reason we see things like that, along with holster thumb snaps or latches being disengaged while approaching, is because they don't have confidence in their ability to run their gun and gear. So much training fail in general, and I'm not just talking about TDA use.

Specifically in the case of the BLM guy, he admitted seeing us with guns, he was uncomfortable with his DA ability. I offered to help him with that, but he declined.

[nalesq]

Decocking when dismounting is essentially what I was taught in defensive training long ago. Since then I've seen a lot of people do a lot of moving around with a DA/SA gun in SA mode in a competitive context. That prompts me to think more about the defensive doctrine of decocking, though that is still what I would go with. And since no one seems to have brought it up yet - what about an SFA without manual safety? A lot of those guns have triggers that are approximate to a lot of SA triggers, with some extra slack in the front. Obviously, there is no option to decock them, but would we in the defensive world consider it unsafe to move with an SFA in hand? We clearly don't. So that gives me more pause on the defensive doctrine of decocking and prompts me to think about it some more, though that is still what I would go with.

Just a few more thoughts for the discussion!

I think by not decocking whenever it is practical to do so, at the very least, one is giving up one of the primary advantages of a DA trigger for "real world" use, which is that it is marginally more forgiving of stress-induced carelessness than a SFA trigger.

To the extent that a trigger that is more forgiving of careless handling is also one we would regard as "safer," then it is certainly LESS safe to fail to decock whenever the pistol is dismounted, though it may not fall to the level of being unacceptably unsafe, if professional standards don't regard running around with a SFA pistol as unacceptably unsafe.


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[nalesq]

Duplicate

[spinmove_]

Do their czs even have decockers? Also, not to hate on them, but I doubt their training is the level of most shooters here.

So CZs that don't have a decocker have a safety instead, right? Or am I way off on that?


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[breakingtime91]

So CZs that don't have a decocker have a safety instead, right? Or am I way off on that?


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All that I have seen. Honestly most czs I have seen have been a safety? Idk lol

[Lomshek]

Looking through the Nairobi mall photos, it is hard to finded a decocked DA/SA pistol.

Except for IDPA guy it's hard to find someone with their finger off the trigger. I agree with breakingtime91 that the level of training there is probably waaaayyyyy behind where instructors start yelling about decocking when not engaging a target.

[Paul Sharp]

That's kinda what I was talking about in my last post to Les. For some reason I didn't decock until the final dismount and movement to holster, despite quite a bit of training to decock every time my left hand comes off the pistol. As I posted before, I've been trained to shoot, assess, decock, communicate and if necessary move. The decock happens has the pistol is dismounted and the hands start to come apart at the #3. As the left hand is coming off the pistol, swipe the decocker so it's ready to be holstered.

It's definitely interesting to me to realize I've been trained and I practice one way but in competition I perform slightly differently.

[Clobbersaurus]

Decocking when dismounting is essentially what I was taught in defensive training long ago. Since then I've seen a lot of people do a lot of moving around with a DA/SA gun in SA mode in a competitive context. That prompts me to think more about the defensive doctrine of decocking, though that is still what I would go with. And since no one seems to have brought it up yet - what about an SFA without manual safety? A lot of those guns have triggers that are approximate to a lot of SA triggers, with some extra slack in the front. Obviously, there is no option to decock them, but would we in the defensive world consider it unsafe to move with an SFA in hand? We clearly don't. So that gives me more pause on the defensive doctrine of decocking and prompts me to think about it some more, though that is still what I would go with.

Just a few more thoughts for the discussion!

You make some good points. I've seen enough running and gunning in a competition setting with fully cocked DA/SA and SA guns with 3lb (and under) triggers to give me pause as well. Granted, it's a tightly controlled setting, with a high degree of safety protocol, but I've seen guys, trip, fall, stumble etc, with fully cocked guns and have yet to see an ND.


That being said, I shoot DA/SA guns and in a class setting I always decock when dismounting the gun. I do believe that the length of a DA trigger does provide the user with more options. I wrote about this before, but last year I tried my 92D at a match. It's a DA only gun, and it was measurably harder to shoot that gun in a competition setting, but something happened that convinced me that the DA trigger is an option I want to have on my guns. On one stage I clearly remember running into position, aligning the gun on target and pressing the trigger to break a shot. During the press, I noticed that my sights had become horribly misaligned. I was able to come off the trigger, stabilize the sights, and then continue the trigger press. I am quite certain had I been in SA mode with another gun I would have broken that shot. It made me think of the realities of a defensive scenario and how fast things can change. The DA length gives you options, and to this day I still think if I were able to carry, I would choose a DA only auto or at the very least a DA/SA with stringent decocking proceedures.

The only time decock at a match is during the load and make ready command. Interestingly, I was scolded for decocking during the "if clear, hammer down and holster" command; the RO told me that he wanted to see me pull the trigger so he knew the gun was unloaded. I still need to do more talking with him on that one.

[Mr_White]

Good post, and don't get me started on unload-show clear procedures. They, and the cold range, are a necessary evil to get the great benefits of competition.