Your thoughts on a production holster

[JRCHolsters]

I am finally taking the plunge this year and going to make my first short production run of holsters to put on the shelf. I have been working out a few processes to efficiently produce a quality rig without a higher end custom price. For these holsters, I will be using drum dyed HO or W&C leather, not horsehide. They will also be detail press molded, not hand boned.

Here are my thoughts on a first run;

BS-SS - my standard pancake belt slide

Brown(ish) color

25 degree rake

1.5" x .250 loop tunnels

1911 5"

$75-80 off the shelf

I have always respected P-F members valued insights, as they have helped influence my line over the years. My question to you is multifold.
If I had these sitting on the shelf, available to purchase on my website, would you buy that over waiting for something custom?
Since I will be making these in lots of about 20 holsters, what are your thoughts on different holster / gun models you would be interested in?
My thought is to keep things standard for this line, NOT CUSTOM. Please keep that in mind with responses.

As always, I am very open to suggestion. Nothing is set in stone yet.

Thanks in advance, Jim

[NGP]

My only thought would be I'd much prefer snaps vs. belt slide. Otherwise I would definitely pick one up, especially at or near that price.

[jwperry]

I state the below questions not in a pejorative tense (as you know I like your products) but rhetorically.

Why should I buy that and not a Galco from Amazon for $71 shipped?
How much of your business is centered around the 5" 1911 and not say a Glock or P320?

I'd be more interested in buying a COTS product for a 'service grade' pistol than a 1911, which for me personally and in my view is more of a custom market due to the required attention they get.

[JRCHolsters]

I state the below questions not in a pejorative tense (as you know I like your products) but rhetorically.

Why should I buy that and not a Galco from Amazon for $71 shipped?
How much of your business is centered around the 5" 1911 and not say a Glock or P320?

I'd be more interested in buying a COTS product for a 'service grade' pistol than a 1911, which for me personally and in my view is more of a custom market due to the required attention they get.

Good questions, glad you asked.
Per the Galco question. I have been taking a hard look at Galco, Desantis, etc holsters over the last couple of years. IMHO, the quality of the leather has been going down the tubes. Cheaper and softer cuts are being used cut costs and increase margins. Though my holsters will be leather as well, I will only be using high grade hides and running small lots, so there can still be better attention to detail.

1911 over the Glock...... for the moment, simple logistics. I make tons of 1911 rigs, as well as glock, hk, Sig. You have to start somewhere though. This is one of the reasons I am presenting the situation to the forum for feedback. I am certainly not above changing my mind based on what I hear from all of you

[JRCHolsters]

My only thought would be I'd much prefer snaps vs. belt slide. Otherwise I would definitely pick one up, especially at or near that price.

Certainly not out of the question, but probably not for a first run................depending on the feedback I get.

[blues]

Good questions, glad you asked.
Per the Galco question. I have been taking a hard look at Galco, Desantis, etc holsters over the last couple of years. IMHO, the quality of the leather has been going down the tubes. Cheaper and softer cuts are being used cut costs and increase margins. Though my holsters will be leather as well, I will only be using high grade hides and running small lots, so there can still be better attention to detail.

Ain't it the truth. I compared one of my leather holsters from one of the above from the early 80's to one made by them recently and it was night and day...literally. Fortunately, a neighbor wanted it and I gave him a good deal to get rid of it and replaced it with your OSS holster for my 686+ which is light years ahead in the quality of the material alone. (Let alone construction.)

I think that if your price point is reasonably close to the offerings from these companies that the discriminating buyer will be foolish to consider going elsewhere.

It might even be worthwhile to consider selling some via amazon (at least temporarily) to get a foothold in a different market and have the reviews available for those who do not visit boards like this one. Just a thought.

[jwperry]

Good questions, glad you asked.
Per the Galco question. I have been taking a hard look at Galco, Desantis, etc holsters over the last couple of years. IMHO, the quality of the leather has been going down the tubes. Cheaper and softer cuts are being used cut costs and increase margins. Though my holsters will be leather as well, I will only be using high grade hides and running small lots, so there can still be better attention to detail.

1911 over the Glock...... for the moment, simple logistics. I make tons of 1911 rigs, as well as glock, hk, Sig. You have to start somewhere though. This is one of the reasons I am presenting the situation to the forum for feedback. I am certainly not above changing my mind based on what I hear from all of you

Maybe I just hang out with a bunch of cheapskates, but I know very few people who buy based on quality. Of the half-dozen guys I shoot on a regular basis with, only 1 person would buy a setup based on the quality of it compared to the price....and a lot of that has to do with the fact that not everyone knows what real quality can & should feel like.

I'm not trying to dissuade or be a negative, but I don't want to see you spend time & money on a product that won't create a worthwhile return for you. Unless you're looking to hire some young(read this as cheap) help and teach them the ways of leather working by creating an affordable COTS product, then rock and roll.

[RevolverRob]

It might even be worthwhile to consider selling some via amazon (at least temporarily) to get a foothold in a different market and have the reviews available for those who do not visit boards like this one. Just a thought.

This. Who will know where to get your production holsters and how to get them? Distribution is to the advantage of the big companies, simply because they have established distribution networks. It's not enough to make a quality product it has to get into the hands of the end users you want it to get into. Which is the next big question for you.

Given the now well established reputation of kydex - why pay $85 for a leather pancake holster when a plastic one from Comp-Tac/Blade-Tech can be had for less money? I know the answer, because 1911s go in leather, not plastic. But I worry, seriously, about the potential market for even semi-production holsters. The bottom line is, I've found guys who are willing to shell out $85 for a Galco are willing to shell out $100+ for custom leather. Whereas guys who won't spend that money, will just get a cheap belt-slide for $25 and call it a day.

I guess what I'm saying here is...the price point you're at + the distribution potential would make me be very cautious in terms of investment. There is a solid market for a well-made holsters at $35-50 range. And a solid market for custom holsters in the $100+ range. I'm less clear on the market at $50-100. I slung guns across glass for a living and did purchasing for a big national chain (in guns and accoutrements). I never worried about selling out of Galco/Bianchi/DeSantis holsters, they didn't sell fast, ever. Stores typically carried 2xEach of RH/LH pancakes for 1911s/Glocks and RH/LH IWB for same, priced right about 60 bucks/each. A store was GOOD if it sold all four RHs in a quarter. It was GREAT if it sold them in a month. Much more likely to sell fast were Blackhawk Derpas at $35 and Uncle Mike's Sausage Sacks at $10-15.

If you're looking to expand your business model. You might go the slightly the opposite way. Build a run of bare-bones horsehide models (your signature leather) for you three most popular models (probably 1911, Glock, and something else?). And "stock" them. This way, people anxious for custom leather, but who don't want to wait or can't wait, can get into your products more quickly and at a (presumably) lower-end price.

I also don't meant to be negative. I admire your talent and leatherwork. I want to see you succeed, so when I have more disposable income I can buy some righteously good leather from you. I'd hate to see you struggle or lose time/money on a bad investment. Margins are thin in the holster making world and I've seen a shop or two close up, because of a risky venture. If you do go for it, I admire and support you! Just offering a cautionary perspective.

-Rob

[JRCHolsters]

Great advise from all so far. On a distribution level, I really have no intention to sell in stores, save for a few I personally have business with already. My intention is to offer it directly from my site. I get a large amount of traffic and inquiries as well as business. Based on interactions with all of these people, I feel as though there are some that would "pull the trigger" faster for something on the shelf at a mid-high price point. Of course, I could be totally wrong.... wouldn't be the first time, lol. Even if it flops, it will be short run to begin with and any process/equipment will be useful in my custom business, so no worries there.

One of the reasons I won't do more economical horsehide holsters is multifold. Hides of decent quality are harder to get, with longer wait times. The #2 hides that you see available from internet leather sales companies have gotten pretty poor in quality over the last 5 years, though they still aren't cheap. When my shipment comes in from the tannery, I have to take quite a bit of time sorting. Just not conducive to making an inexpensive holster I would be willing to put my name on.

So, all that said... thoughts on pistol/holster models? rake angles etc?

[RevolverRob]

So, all that said... thoughts on pistol/holster models? rake angles etc?

AIWB-CDA II for a DE .50 trimmed with the skin of my freshly crushed enemies?

__

Pancake and Summer Special type IWB - straight drop/5-degree forward rake - 1911, Glock 17/Glock 19, Sig P320, M&P(??). I want to say HK P30, because P30 owner here, but not sure it makes logistical sense. Also the standard P30 does poorly in a SS-type holster, same problem its older sibling the P7 has...a fat butt and a short snout (though it is noticeably better than a P7).

It'd be COOL if someone made a rough-side out IWB 1911 holster that didn't cost an arm and a leg. I mean, I don't have a 1911 anymore...but ya know that could change.