They aren't on the list because they don't make the cut. If they did they'd be on it.Originally Posted by blackhatter
But please, don't accept my statements, just go the range and have a competent shooter run drills, do combatives/fof and other physical activities on a timer.
VDMSR.com
Chief Developer for V Development Group
Everything I post I do so as a private individual who is not representing any company or organization.
What you are failing to consider is that several of the people commenting on holster quality (including Ellifritz in the linked article and others in this thread) conduct and attend open enrollment classes where holster and gear are the choice of the students not the instructors. As such they have very close second hand experience of many kinds of equipment failures without purchasing those products or using them. This doesn't mean new companies don't "get a chance".
Spending your own money to prove something is not the only way to have it tested. Watching a SERPA, hybrid holster, Taurus or Bersa choke in a pistol or combatives context time after time kind of speaks for itself. If you feel the need to doubt the direct observation and experience of others and make your own choice, that's ok.
Many people's opinions are clouded by bias towards choices they have already made. When an impartial observer has a chance to stress test things they have not invested in, it would be wise to at least consider those evaluations as well as those who have paid their own money to try something and may or may not be objective.
Edited for grammar issues and such
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited by NerdAlert; 03-19-2017 at 11:51 AM.
If I may be so bold as to presume, my guess is that the issue taken is with the manner of presentation rather than the facts offered in support of the makers we favor. (And that's all I have to say on that subject since I am very happy with my JMCK and DSG holsters and cannot comment on others I haven't tried.)
There's nothing civil about this war.
'Snobbish' and 'elitist' are pejorative. I'm Catholic; 'insular' is a good thing in my book. There is often a proportional relationship between a group's resistance to change and its credibility.
You mean like jmck, who was unknown until people on this forum tried them extensively and dug them? Keepers? Jrc? Mastermind?
Do you think there aren't a hundred of us who have tried a Minotaur?
Last edited by JAD; 03-19-2017 at 02:56 PM.
Ignore Alien Orders
Hey now, don't be bringing mah diabeetus into this...
You mean the sugar?
There's nothing civil about this war.
Is there a thread similar to the 2000 round challenge for holsters? Granted comfort is completely subjective, but I don't see any objective evidence regarding quality or performance. I don't even know how to formulate such a review, but I'm not responsible for an approved list. I'm open to learning more about holsters. But nothing I've read on this thread, other than, "trust me, I know what I'm talking about and you don't " is evidence based. Everything I've heard is anecdotal.
I've seen links to the Gadget. Persuasive. I've seen links to aftermarket glock triggers bypassing safeties. Convincing.
I also haven't found a lot other online reviews of these other holsters. That is NOT to say they aren't great, but hard to make an informed decision. One of the reasons I tried SG was because there were a lot of positive and reviews online.
I'm not an operator. I'm not a uspsa champion. So you want to call me a sheepdog? Fine.
I still appreciate the collective wisdom of the forum.
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
First up, I am not wise so take this with a pinch of salt. I am new to all this.
The trouble is, holster preferences are subjective and I am not sure I see a way to apply a metric that will mean something to the majority. I think you can see from the number of posts and comments that there are favourites but the sample is made up of people who post, there could be as many who hated the holster and said nothing online.
The more I think about it, the more what voodoo_man said makes sense, you simply have to test the different holsters in different activities having set parameters to check for.
It's a good start to agree those parameters:
concealment
speed
comfort, throughout the day, seated, standing, walking, running, in car, at desk etc.
retention
retention/access during a physical confrontation and/or fast movement
I might add longevity but I kinda see that like magazines, they're consumables that we shouldn't expect to last forever - when it shows wear, replace it.
What other parameters are there?
The next part is setting a standard for each parameter, it's easy enough to set a timer up for the speed, not so easy to measure retention in a fight. I guess the best thing to say is you have to make a judgement call on what works for you and what circumstances are most likely to happen to you. Taking a course from @SouthNarc or similar would seem like a great starting place.
I carried in a Comp Tac hybrid when I first got my license. I carried that way for years oblivious to how bad it was from a retention standpoint, always content that it was comfy. I was always very aware at how poorly it concealed while bending over or squatting.
One day I was hunting and decided to check zero on my rifle. Went to a field and went prone to get a good rest. As I shimmied my butt to the correct position for my NPOA my Glock 19 slid out of the holster and into my fleece jacket. It continued around my love handle and settled below my stomach. I carefully got up and grabbed the 19 without dropping it.
I switched to kydex after that, and AIWB probably a year later. After many tries with different holster makers I'm settled on DSG, JMCK, and JRC.
I am a "bigger guy". I prefer kydex. It is slim and when built right very durable and retention is great. I have tried a stealthgear. And it was just way to big and overpriced. Wide and thick no bueno. I have a aliengear 3.0. It works great, has spring steel in the backing so it stays ridgid. I do not wear it a lot, but it is more comfortable to me then the stealthgear was. I just received a mastermind iwb for my px4 cc and it is super high quality for the price.
I could give a shit about whatever labels people wanna slap on. If the dudes here who actually run shit and run shit hard give stuff a stamp of approval, why the fuck should I continue trying the fly by night companies????? If I do not like it I can try the next. But so far pf has been spot on.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote