RFI Hunting Revolvers

[PNWTO]

This also begs a couple of questions. First, what are you hunting, and where? For the 98.9% of hunters who DO NOT live in big brown bear country, .44 Mag loads are likely to be plenty good for anything you'll meet in the woods. For deer, pig, and other "medium" game hunting, you generally don't need a .454 Casul or one of the other big bores (.480, .500, whatever). If you do live with George, or want to hunt Cape Buffalo with a handgun, your needs will be different, and a .45 or up "exotic" caliber is probably the right way to go.

Primarily would be elk in WA, with future plans for CO, ID, and MT. Obviously, for the opportunities in other states I would most likely use a rifle. I think the .44 Mag is perfect for my needs on elk and mule deer. WA doesn't really have a big bear issue problem, although that is looking to change over the next decade or so. Cats are my primary worry.

If I ever bought a .454 or bigger it would be solely for shits 'n giggles at this point.

[psalms144.1]

Primarily would be elk in WA, with future plans for CO, ID, and MT. Obviously, for the opportunities in other states I would most likely use a rifle. I think the .44 Mag is perfect for my needs on elk and mule deer. WA doesn't really have a big bear issue problem, although that is looking to change over the next decade or so. Cats are my primary worry.

If I ever bought a .454 or bigger it would be solely for shits 'n giggles at this point.

Sorry, totally blew past the earlier mention of Wapiti. I've only taken one, WAY back (more than 30 years back) when I was an Infantry officer at Ft. Lewis and humping up and down mountains sounded like fun. Took it with a 7mm Mag. Elk can be wicked tough, anchoring them is problematic, and if it bolts for the other side of the mountain, you're in for a long day (or night, or both). I'm sure the .44 would do the job, but I'd definitely load a heavy bullet for deep penetration, and I'd be INSANELY selective about shots. I haven't hunted anything for a while, but I've become more and more conservative as I get older - and on my last several outings passed on shots that I probably could have pulled off, but didn't want to risk a wounded animal.

Contrarily, a buddy of mine from the Army got so bored of hunting with a rifle that he switched to handgun only before switching to bow only. He took damned near every large game animal in the lower 48 with a .44 mag, including an alligator, so I have no doubt it'll work on elk in the right hands (e.g., NOT mine!)

For mountain lions, and the occasional black bear you might bang into, the .44 would be plenty.

[okie john]

It seems like a a lot of folks,namely Bowen, Taffin, and Linebaugh, are big supporters of having the .45 in a 5 shot for strength. Is that just for pure safety from days past or is the really a tier for the .45 above the "Ruger Only" stuff?

My wording on that may not be the best.

The five-shot guns are definitely a tier above the "Ruger Only" loads for several reasons:

• Five-shot cylinders are larger in diameter than factory cylinders, so there's more metal in the chamber walls.
• Five-shot cylinders are longer than factory cylinders so you can seat bullets to a longer COAL, which leaves more room for powder while staying within safe pressure limits.
• The longer cylinder means that the unsupported forcing cone is also shorter, so it's stronger and less likely to fail.
• The chambers are cut to minimum dimensions, so the case gets maximum support, which is essential when you're getting close to 60k psi.
• Having five chambers instead of six means that the locking cuts are offset from the chambers, which eliminates the thin spot that is the weakest part of the cylinder.

Also, five-shot cylinders are made to fit each frame, so they're more precise in general, which makes them hold up better under extreme recoil. They're also superbly accurate because they're line-bored, so each chamber lines up directly behind the forcing cone.

There are some downsides:

• You MUST handload to get this level of performance, and it's easy to end up tied to one bullet and one load. If a key component gets scarce, then you're out of the game until you can find it again.
• You can only reach this level of performance with cast bullets. The range of suitable bullet designs is small, but it's a lot better than it was when I was messing with them 15-20 years ago. Bullets are a particular problem unless you cast them yourself. Whether you cast them or buy them, alloy, sizing, lube, and gas check type are all critical, and problems in one of those areas can wreck your performance, so you end up with a whole new set of variables to ponder. If you enjoy trying to make a G22 run with a WML mounted, then you'll love developing high-performance revolver loads with cast bullets.
• With heavy loads these guns are essentially self-cleaning because the pressure blasts the fouling off of the cylinder face and forcing cone. Unfortunately, there isn't enough pressure to do this with light loads, so they can tie up after 10-15 rounds. The cure is to shoot a cylinder full of hot loads to blast the crud off of the gun, which kind of defeats the purpose of shooting light loads.

With all of that in mind, the Ruger Only 45 Colt section of Hodgons's 26th edition takes a 325-grain bullet to 1,250 fps. If I were determined to hunt with heavy revolver loads, then those loads would easily meet all of my needs without requiring me to drop $2-3k on a five-shot revolver. I'd get a $500 Bisley and tweak it as follows:

• Send the cylinder to http://www.cylindersmith.com/ and have the throats opened to 0.452"
• De-horn the trigger, trigger guard, and grip frame, then fit the grips to the grip frame
• Get an action job and a free-wheel pawl
• Add Bowen sights if I felt like spending a little more money
• Install an extra-strength Wolff mainspring
• LocTite the hell out of every screw on the gun--they shoot loose very quickly.

Okie John

[okie john]

Contrarily, a buddy of mine from the Army got so bored of hunting with a rifle that he switched to handgun only before switching to bow only. He took damned near every large game animal in the lower 48 with a .44 mag, including an alligator, so I have no doubt it'll work on elk in the right hands (e.g., NOT mine!)

This.

I'd have to get pretty tired of shooting elk to start hunting them with a revolver. For every patch of timber, you can literally turn 180 degrees and find yourself looking at a hundred square miles of wide-open country. If you specialize in timber, then you'll be OK with a revolver, but it really limits what you can accomplish anywhere else.


Okie John

[jamautry]

I have used a 44 mag on a number of animals including water buffalo. With proper loads it will handle elk without an issue.

A couple of other options are Magnum Research BFR and Freedom Arms model 83. Both are excellent and would not require any extra work from a gunsmith although you pay for that upfront. The BFR is in the $1200 range and the Freedom Arms is $2000 plus.

[SLG]

I like the 5 shot cylinders for all the reasons Okie John listed, but "needed" for hunting anything in the U.S., is not a reason. Even if you never want to load or shoot that power level, just having a bank vault gun is very pleasurable. Either way though, a modern Bisley is an awesome gun, and it handles recoil very well. It handles it so well, that I tend to use hotter loads in it than I need, and intend to download for it when I get serious about hunting with it over the 629. Regardless, proper throats and a freewheel pawl are really nice to have, and well worth it imo.

btw, cylindersmith is no longer smithing.

[PNWTO]

...

Thank you! Still digesting all that. If you ever find yourself in the 509 let me know. I think I am set on the .44 Mag and one of the various Blackhawk or Redhawk offerings should that 29 gig not work out.

Either way though, a modern Bisley is an awesome gun, and it handles recoil very well. It handles it so well, that I tend to use hotter loads in it than I need, and intend to download for it when I get serious about hunting with it over the 629. Regardless, proper throats and a freewheel pawl are really nice to have, and well worth it imo.

With some searching it seems like preference for the Bisley vs plowhandle is about even, though individuals I trust, like yourself, lean to the Bisley. I also have taken notice that Freedom Arms and Linebaugh lean to the Bisley style as well.

Also, this doesn't add to the thread at all but I found it doing some searching. Very inspiring and Mr. Taffin seems very genuine and charismatic, just like his writings.

[SLG]

The plowhandle handles moderate recoil very well, better than the Bisley. When you get up above full house .44 magnums though, you pretty much have to have the Bisley. Unless you want your hammer as a part of your hand.

[41magfan]

Handgun hunting pioneers like Larry Kelly (of Mag-na-port fame) showed the handgunning world what a properly constructed, heavy bullet would do in the game fields when fired from a .44 Mag revolver. Just about every big critter in Africa fell to his .44 Magnum including half a dozen pachyderms.

If you load it right and shoot it right, I don't think you'll experience any performance issues .... not on this continent, anyway.

[okie john]

The plowhandle handles moderate recoil very well, better than the Bisley. When you get up above full house .44 magnums though, you pretty much have to have the Bisley. Unless you want your hammer as a part of your hand.

This.


Okie John