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Thread: 3" 9mm making IDPA power factor

  1. #11
    As said, nobody is checking at Tier 1 club level monthlies. If your gun makes an appropriate bang and the poppers fall down, you are OK.
    Not all Tier 2 small sanctioned matches will chronograph. Tier 3 will.
    Code Name: JET STREAM

  2. #12
    Member olstyn's Avatar
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    Are we talking about handloads or factory ammo here? As others have said, nobody's going to chrono your ammo at a local match anyway, so I'd say if you're buying factory ammo, go with 124 grain or heavier and just don't worry about it unless you have problems knocking down poppers. If you're going to hand load, you may have to do some tinkering with powders, bullets, and even cartridge OAL to get 125+ PF out of a 3 inch gun, but it should be doable; I got ~130 out of a 3.5 inch gun without having to work too hard at it. Half an inch may require an extra couple of tenths of powder to get there, that's all; just work up slowly with a chronograph and, as GuanoLoco said, watch for pressure signs.

    All that said, you're also not going to be terribly competitive with a 3 inch gun; the simple reality is that smaller guns are harder to control in recoil, so you won't be able to shoot as quickly while maintaining accuracy as you would with a larger gun. If competition is one of your goals with gun ownership, you'll eventually want a larger gun. This is experience talking; I started out with a 3.5" compact myself, and it didn't take long for me to realize that it was a handicap in action pistol sports. I later bought the full size version of the same gun, and the first classifier I shot with it resulted in a better score than any I'd previously shot. YMMV, but it's something to think about.

  3. #13
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    My Shield shoots a 147 grain polymer coated bullet 907 fps using 4.6 grains of HS-6 for a PF of 133. That same load in my M&P FS was 973 fps/143

    Using 147 grain HST +p (it's all I could find at the time) I got 976 fps for a PPF of 143. In my M&P 9 FS it gave me a PF of 153 with 1045 fps.

    I haven't crono'd it but would expect even WWB 115 to at least make 125 PF but it would be close. I don't have it recorded but seem to remember getting about 135 fps out of my Ruger 4.5" P94 with 115 gr WWB.

  4. #14
    I'm getting into this to have fun. That sort of statement usually leads to serious obsession and an empty wallet.

    It sure looks like not making power factor in a subcompact is the way it is, not that I live and die by power factor. With the comments above I am waffling on whether maybe a compact 4" barreled gun is 'better'. I really do need two....

    Now the hand wringing starts on how to proceed. Off to the range to rent a gun or two I suppose. At this point I am willing to bet that a year from now I will have two new guns. I am a bit committed, I bought brass and 100 115 grn and 100 147grn bullets so I should have 200 rounds ready to go when this gun decision is done.

  5. #15
    I might be out with the chronograph sometime this month.
    I can compare a 3.5" SA UC to a 5" Loaded.
    Code Name: JET STREAM

  6. #16
    Member olstyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasco View Post
    Now the hand wringing starts on how to proceed. Off to the range to rent a gun or two I suppose. At this point I am willing to bet that a year from now I will have two new guns. I am a bit committed, I bought brass and 100 115 grn and 100 147grn bullets so I should have 200 rounds ready to go when this gun decision is done.
    Sounds like you'll probably end up somewhere similar to me - a compact and a full size of the same platform, the small one to carry and the large one to compete with. Glock G26/G19, G26/G17, G43/G19, G43/G17 are probably the "default" solutions for something like that, but there are plenty of other ways you can go and be happy with the results. HK has the P30SK/P30/P30L and the VP9SK/VP9/VP9L, Walther has the PPS/P99c/P99/PPQ/PPQ 5"/PPQ Q5, SIG has the 239/229/226, the SP2022, the P320, etc, and other reputable manufacturers have similar lineups as well. Hard to go too far wrong, to be honest, as long as you find something that works well for you. Also, 200 bullets is not going to last you very long, just saying.

  7. #17
    OK, I ran some ammo over the chronograph.

    9mm 115 gr Magnus JHP 1.095" 4.8 gr HP38
    5" Colt 1225 fps f 140
    3.8" P225 1154 fps f 132
    3.5" SA 1123 fps f 129

    9mm 147 gr Magnus FMJ 1.145" 3.6 gr HP38
    5" Colt 942 fps f 138
    3.5" SA 863 fps f 126

    9mm 115 gr Federal American Eagle factory
    5" Colt 1141 fps f 131
    3.5" SA 1042 fps f 119

    So you can make Minor power factor in short barrels within published load data, but econoball from cheapmart won't make the grade.
    Code Name: JET STREAM

  8. #18
    Good to see some data! Thanks for posting this. Not too worried about pf any more, close enough.

    Tell me, do you find accuracy drops greatly going from the long to short barrels? I don't have any practical experience with this. Can training overcome the short sight radius deficit?

  9. #19
    Member olstyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasco View Post
    do you find accuracy drops greatly going from the long to short barrels? Can training overcome the short sight radius deficit?
    I find that it's more about how much speed you have to lose in order to make good hits at distances > 10 yards. With a shorter sight radius, your sight picture is inherently less precise, so you'll have to slow down a bit more on longer shots. I'm not talking a lot, and how significant this effect is will vary with shooter skill level, but over the course of a stage or a match, it might be that little disadvantage that makes you get beaten by 0.5% vs beating that person by 0.5%.

    Edit: so you know what level of shooter I am, I'm somewhere in the middle of USPSA C-class in Production, trying to gradually claw my way up to B. Last summer, I upgraded from using my 3.5" carry gun in USPSA to the 4" "full size" of the same gun (Walther P99c --> P99) and saw an immediate performance improvement as a result. It wasn't just about the sight radius (the full-size grip made a big difference, too), but the improved sight radius was definitely a factor. I shot the P99c in competition for several years, and while it definitely was a handicap, it didn't prevent me from having a lot of fun and learning a lot.
    Last edited by olstyn; 03-22-2017 at 05:48 AM.

  10. #20
    I know this a stale thread, but just a quick update and close. I picked up my new XD 4" 9mm a few days ago. Hope to go shoot this weekend. Thanks for letting me think out loud here and thanks for the comments. Now to select a holster, without buying five along the way... See you at the range.

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