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Thread: For those of you that have done so, Dillon 550 versus 650 comparisons?

  1. #21
    Member GuanoLoco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bofe954 View Post
    Have you added this process time into your rounds per hour calculations? I don't ask to be a smartass (mostly), but this is what drives me crazy about the rounds per hour claims that I read. I'm the devil may care guy for the most part and am thinking about more brass QC. Probably not to your level. I don't think it would save me time, in fact my guess is it would make me slower, might be less annoying though.
    I don't add time for brass processing into throughput calculations; I don't think anyone does.

    I can tell you that in my last run I was at 2100 rounds per hours on the machine WHEN IT WAS RUNNING, and that I loaded 2000 in 75 minutes, and that I had loaded and case guaged 2000 in 90 minutes. It assumed a press set up, calibrated and ready to go. It included time to reload bullets/brass/primers/powder as I went and time to correct any jams or malfunctions.

    I can watch netflix and QC brass when I am so inclined, and usually do so 5 gallons at a crack.

    I like to load fast and clean - get in and get out. A night of fixing malfunctions and breakages is no bueno, and trust me, I have had more than my share of those nights. Anything I can do offline to run fast and clean during load sessions is IMHO time well spent.
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  2. #22
    I get it. My brass processing consists of buying polished brass and loading it once. I usually get some amount of military brass and 380 in there, but not much. I put some handfuls in a freezer bag, spray one shot on it and use it. I get some stoppages.

    I don't pick up brass at matches. When I practice I put out a tarp and only take my brass. I dry tumble it and use it. By then it's all good brass (potentially a split or something).

    I dig the automated loading. Haven't done it because A. the money, B. the money and C. the brass QC.

    I think that as the machines get faster the stoppages get slower and slower to fix. You need to more and more QC to make sure you can keep going that fast.

    The 550 isn't that fast, but you can fix stoppages very easily without the auto index. I think someone could probably load pretty quick with a 550 and an RF100. You do no QC. You handle every piece of brass anyway. If you have a problem it gets fixed quick. Yeah, you lack a bullet feed and case feed but you don't stop to fill them either.

    My 650 is faster, but if a piece of 40 gets in my case feeder I need to loosen an allen bolt, lift the feeder, disconnect the tube, dump out the piece of 40 and go again. Meanwhile the 550 guy is just loading. Until his primer feed gets dirty...

    I think picking the right machine has a lot to do with what you find less tedious about process. It's something to think about when buying a machine and reading threads like this.

  3. #23
    Member Luke's Avatar
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    1. Buying brass like that seems odd. Why no range brass?
    2. Fulfilling my bullet and case feeder literally takes 3 seconds each. -grab handful and throw into unit
    3. If you have to loosen the Allen bolt holding the case feeder to pull your tube off you have it down too far.
    i used to wannabe

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Luke View Post
    1. Buying brass like that seems odd. Why no range brass?
    2. Fulfilling my bullet and case feeder literally takes 3 seconds each. -grab handful and throw into unit
    3. If you have to loosen the Allen bolt holding the case feeder to pull your tube off you have it down too far.
    1. I reuse MY range brass. I don't pick it up at matches because at big matches I can't. It isn't worth the hassle to me to pick up my 150 pieces at locals, and I don't want the 10x loaded 9 major brass from the guy shooting before me. You can buy 6000 pieces of clean (supposedly) once fired brass for $150. If I reuse the brass that I shoot in practice (loosing some of it) that'll last over a year, and cleaning brass sucks anyway.
    2. Do you use case lube? Takes longer than 3 seconds for me to fill my casefeeder. I didn't use case lube on the 550. Maybe I would if I used it again?
    3. I have a low basement ceiling so the pipe holding up my feeder is shortened, I might have less play, but I'll have to look into that. I'm not popping it apart that often anyway.

    Look I'm not trying to argue a 550 can be faster than a 650 or come anywhere near the speeds that Guano is pulling. Just that there are other considerations too.
    Last edited by bofe954; 03-23-2017 at 09:05 PM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuanoLoco View Post
    Too many people take a devil-may-care attitude with their brass and then deal with all manner of stoppages while reloading. The usual comment I hear is: "Oh, I jsut handle it as I go." For me, constant failures to dto brass issues is maddening, so I go to some trouble to avoid issues. For example:

    Sort
    Magnet check
    Wet Clean
    Dehydrate / dry thoroughly.
    QC - Pour 9mm cases by hand into a MTM 40 case while shaking it. Cases mostly fall head down.
    Remove upside down cases, eyeball from side and remove .380, 38 super/super comp, and even 9x18 cases
    Remove cases with berdan primers, obstructions, dinged case mouths, or dezincifies brass
    Once done pour 9mm 'clean' brass from hand to hand and listen. Split cases, missed 380's, etc. will not ring true
    Hit with a little one-shot as a lube/anti-tarnish

    IF you have automation (not worhtwhile for manual):
    Preprocess - Lube, size or preferably U-Die re-size, Decap with optical decapping sensor to minimize issues with decapped primers sticking to the decapping pin and getting sucked back in to the primer pocket, Swage primer pockets.
    Seal in a 5 gal bucket with a gamma lid. It will keep indefinitely and you will have much more productive loading sessions.

    QC's and/or Fully Preprocessed brass loads more reliably. For automated processes, cartridges can be loaded at faster rates with much lower clutch pressure settings. This is much easier on the machine / parts. You will understand after you replace a lot of broken parts, particularly with the powder measure.
    Do you deprime the pins prior to washing? Sounds like it's not worth it if you don't have automation based off your description.

  6. #26
    Member GuanoLoco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeep45238 View Post
    Do you deprime the pins prior to washing? Sounds like it's not worth it if you don't have automation based off your description.
    No. I wash everything with primers in, force-dry, then QC. After that is automated preprocessing. This includes pistol and rifle brass.
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  7. #27

  8. #28

    Necro...

    Just kicked out some rounds on the 650 and every time I do I am glad I bought the thing. For years I had a 550 (eventually two) and rationalized it would not be that much faster, and I was wrong. I think the primer system is another good reason to go with it, and the reliability helps maintain a loading rate.

    Now the quandary is the bullet feeder. Not sure it is something I want to screw with, but my left arm is getting tired...

  9. #29
    Member GuanoLoco's Avatar
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    What is your estimated annual volume?

    What is your savings per round?

    How long will it take you to amortize the investment?

    What is your time worth to you relative to your disposable income?

    For me, I figure reloading 9mm saves me about $0.10/round, maybe less. My time is vary valuable to me, and I have disposable income so it is more of a prioritization/decision for me. If an add-on make me meaningfully more efficient, or saves wear/tear on my elbows (I’ve worked my way into tendinitis in both arms, inside and out before) then I tend to invest in the hardware. Then again, my situation may be very unlike yours.

    I went from a 550 to a 1050 and very quickly to a bullet feeder - and never looked back. Hand placing bullets when I load small quantities of other calibers seems rather peculiar at this point - but I don’t load enough to invest in anotherMr. Buller Feeder and conversions...yet.
    Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Doodie Project?

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by GuanoLoco View Post
    What is your estimated annual volume? … What is your savings per round? … How long will it take you to amortize the investment?
    Part of the formula for these questions would be "How much does 9mm ammo cost?", and it sure has been tough chasing an ROI for the last couple years. I was pretty sure when I upgraded to the 650 I was still saving 50% on 9mm, at the time that was around $100/k, so I loaded up 8k and told myself I saved enough right there to mostly pay off the 650. But I only have about half of that shot up, and prices are lower on the ammo now, but perhaps I should say right now. I did some math the other day and with the components I am using, with their current pricing levels, and I am probably currently saving ~$65/k, because the price of ammo has dropped faster than components. But I reload because of habit and I actually enjoy fiddling with the cool tools. It also doesn't cost me time, at least not the way I mentally distort things, because I do it when I would not be doing anything productive. Some folks say they would rather spend the time on the range, but I started reloading last night about 8:00, after dinner while it was dark and cold and raining. I am mostly doing an ROI just to prove to myself it is not costing me money

    Quote Originally Posted by GuanoLoco View Post
    What is your estimated annual volume?
    The question I always pose to myself is "What is my DESIRED annual volume?", because I am probably only doing around 4k now, but have been pretty busy with home improvement and work travel. I aspire to be around double that, maybe someday...

    Quote Originally Posted by GuanoLoco View Post
    What is your time worth to you relative to your disposable income? … Then again, my situation may be very unlike yours.
    My current situation is that, for probably the first time in ~15yrs (small business related, long story...) all my needs, as well as my really burning desires, are pretty well met, and if I wanted a bullet feeder I could buy a bullet feeder. But I am not totally sure I wanna mess with a bullet feeder.

    Quote Originally Posted by GuanoLoco View Post
    I went from a 550 to a 1050 and very quickly to a bullet feeder - and never looked back. Hand placing bullets when I load small quantities of other calibers seems rather peculiar at this point - but I don’t load enough to invest in another Mr. Buller Feeder and conversions...yet.
    And that is sorta my quandary, the reason I am not sure I want to mess with a bullet feeder, is that since I like the 650 so much better than I thought I would I keep buying more conversions for it. One thing I do NOT like about reloading is the changeover process. It is not a big deal, but it is not what I like doing, so making that more complex is a downside. Probably what reality holds is I will finish up the current 9mm batch, that should put me 9-12mo out, and consider if I want one next time I do 9mm. Then if I like it maybe I will decide to get a second 650 before I load something else. I think I hear my 500 getting sad...

    The main reason I dug this up and posted here again, is that I am REALLY glad I took the 650 plunge and would urge others that are wondering if it would be that much better that it will be that much better. The 550 is still awesome and I will probably always have one (still have the Rockchucker from my youth), but I sure am glad I made the transition for the volume calibers.

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