The officer in my situation is extremely squared away, used good tactics, this wasn't his first shooting, etc. I guess there's only so much you can do in the chaos coupled with tunnel vision, auditory exclusion, loss of hearing from gunfire, and everything else going on.Originally Posted by voodoo_man
Even though it becomes easier with every deadly force situation, concerning physiological affects, it doesn't always preclude people from not experiencing some type of affect.
...And your buddy sounds like an experienced officer, so imagine the affect an untrained or slightly trained citizen would have in such a circumstance as the OP?
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The most likely place that I see this happening for me is at church. I'm basing this on the fact that I identify at least 2 or 3 random people aside from the security volunteers every week who are carrying concealed handguns. And while I don't consider myself to be well trained I seriously question whether some of these folks have any training beyond the minimum requirement for a concealed handgun permit (hunter's safety course)
All I really know about Tatiana Whitlock is that Oleg Volk has photographed her a couple of times. So I did a little research last night and while I am positive her technique is better than mine I question some of her tactics. In one video she shoots her string, then points her gun straight up in the air and presses it against the side of her head while running to her next shooting position. I don't understand why you would hold a weapon like that.
In another video she states that you've rounded the corner of a hallway and see Mr. Badguy some distance off so you draw and charge down the hallway firing. Why not step back around the corner?
In the final video she says that if you're in Walmart and you have to defend yourself and there's some random stranger in your way you should step in front of them and grab their arm and hold it behind you while engaging Mr. Badguy (her word) one handed.
Like I said, not the slightest doubt in my mind that she can out shoot me but I really question some of the things she suggests doing.
The technique you are talking about is called Temple index also known as high port. There are pros and cons to it which have been discussed here. It is / was popular with instructors who are former naval special warfare folks like Kyle DeFoor and Matt Graham and who do vehicle tactics like Will Petty and Steve Fisher. It is useful in tight spaces, situations where muzzle down would make you muzzle yourself like sitting in a vehicle or in crowds or moving through crowds where a lower position would cause you to muzzle others.
Thread on it here: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....e-Temple-Index
Last edited by HCM; 03-05-2017 at 11:05 AM. Reason: Typos
Roger that. I've been in Kyle's classes where he has taught it.
One of my concerns would be, 'do I want to be with you?' Yes I want to be on the 'good guy' side however there are a lot of people out there carrying guns who are ill prepared and really have no business doing so.
She didn't explain any of that.
Depending on the circumstances those all may be viable options.
Hall ways are tricky as hell and once you own a space you don't give it up.
It's all based on very specific context, that's all.
As for temple index. I prefer that over sul or any of that type.
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I think it is important to put the communication into perspective as it relates to before, during and after the engagement of rounds fired. While auditory exclusion is a factor it mostly relates to the people who feel most threatened and during the time they feel most threatened. Very shortly after the shots are fired and stop auditory exclusion ceases to be an issue. Hearing loss is a possibility but I don't see it as complete loss as much as muffled and reduced so being very loud in any commands or verbalization is key. Also we must consider that verbalization is important not just for us and the possible other good guy/gal present as in the OP video but for others who are present and/or close proximity to respond or hear the verbalization and possibly pass along the information in 911 call or to people/officers responding. By verbalizing loudly and repetitively "police or call police" or something similar other eye or ear witnesses may hear it and advise 911 operators that they heard someone say police or tell that to someone running toward the scene. This may give enough pause to not be shot inadvertently by responders. It may not but it seems like minimal effort to try and mitigate a shitty situation.
To add some anecdotal info from my experiences. I had a 10" barrel AR fired on full auto in our indoor range a few feet away from me before I had my ears on. This was against the wall in the far lane and with 8 foot ceilings so super loud and you could feel the pressure in your body. Afterwards I of course had ringing in my ears but could still hear the guy say sorry he didn't realize I had no ears on yet. Also our dept had a pretty open pursuit policy and plenty of guys working the road for a number of years. The general "tactic" was to rush en mass to the car being pursued once it was boxed in or crashed. This led to a lot of situations where crossfire was a real issue should things kick off. Plenty of people would give directions to avoid continued crossfire and people moved in accordance so it is possible to process what is heard in some people some of the time. Again why not try to verbalize when appropriate.
None of this is me suggesting for anyone to give away their position or surprise on a threat by announcing anything beforehand but there can be rare circumstances where that could be applied too.
The reason I mentioned Tatiana's sign off about context of your life is because I believe most of the decision making information will be picked up through context of the actors body language and actions. Non verbal language is what we pick up on so much more than verbal in all situations so in the worst it is still a big factor. Seeing someone pointing a gun at a threat, seeing a handgun or more likely a compact handgun vs a rifle or larger weapon and other visible and ready equipment all help to determine whether someone is more likely the badguy or a responding person. When they are not pointing their weapon at people and/or shooting any unarmed people that just keeps adding to the clarity of the situation. Unfortunately there are no guarantees.
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