Carrying a Flashlight with a Strike Bezel

[Chance]

I just picked up a BFG belt-mounted Ten Speed mag pouch. Only $20. Worth the experiment.

[JustOneGun]

You posted something, mentioning an old case I happen to be fairly familiar with (have to study the past to understand the future) and your point did not seem to make any sense.

The above statement, while true on its face, is extremely easy to overcome in court.

Being an experienced police officer, having been part of dozens of jury trials, I probably do not have to tell you that lawyers will try to use any little tid bit to their advantage, and they should as they are being paid to do so. This is an expected tactic.

The difference between having a "strike bezel" and a "standard bezel" on a flashlight can be overcome in a few questions and answers in front of jury. "Why did you buy this particular flashlight?" "I don't know, I was not thinking too much about it and it was a good price." "Did you buy it because it had a "Strike bezel" type of feature?" "I don't know what that is." Or something of that nature.

Will you be vilified on the stand for that? They will try and they should try. But unless you have a swastika engraved on it with a depiction of a hanging minority, I think you'll be just fine.

All of that is very much unlike the Goetz case, where he shot four people with an illegally carried gun in NYC. Hence my post.

I think you might be missing an important point. In my neck of the woods the difference of self defense and arrest often depends on what the County Attorney says can be brought to trial. That means if she doesn't like the mean nasty bezel, she can turn it into intent and put your ass in jail. This is the spirit that I took blue's comment. Sometimes you just can't win and have to fight it in court (which is what I think you are saying). But sometimes it isn't a bad idea to think about these things and see if there is a better way that will get you the same outcome (which is what I think the OP is asking?)

I see people talking about bezels, batons, blackjack/slapjacks and just cringe. If someone were to use one in Pima County, even justified, there is a very good chance that they are going to get indicted for aggravated assault. It has nothing to do with right or wrong. As you say, you can beat it in court(maybe). As I say, I prefer to stay out of court and handcuffs for that matter.

We all must decide for ourselves. Choose wisely.

[blues]

I think you might be missing an important point. In my neck of the woods the difference of self defense and arrest often depends on what the County Attorney says can be brought to trial. That means if she doesn't like the mean nasty bezel, she can turn it into intent and put your ass in jail. This is the spirit that I took blue's comment. Sometimes you just can't win and have to fight it in court (which is what I think you are saying). But sometimes it isn't a bad idea to think about these things and see if there is a better way that will get you the same outcome (which is what I think the OP is asking?)

I see people talking about bezels, batons, blackjack/slapjacks and just cringe. If someone were to use one in Pima County, even justified, there is a very good chance that they are going to get indicted for aggravated assault. It has nothing to do with right or wrong. As you say, you can beat it in court(maybe). As I say, I prefer to stay out of court and handcuffs for that matter.

We all must decide for ourselves. Choose wisely.

Thank you. One also avoids perjuring themselves on the stand when they say that they didn't know what the purpose of the bezel was and that they didn't put any thought into it. Especially once any posts or prior discussion regarding impact weapons either online or anywhere else are discovered...

The difference between having a "strike bezel" and a "standard bezel" on a flashlight can be overcome in a few questions and answers in front of jury. "Why did you buy this particular flashlight?" "I don't know, I was not thinking too much about it and it was a good price." "Did you buy it because it had a "Strike bezel" type of feature?" "I don't know what that is." Or something of that nature.

I'm with you, JustOneGun...I prefer to minimize my exposure by considering potential repercussions in advance. What can't be avoided is beyond our control. However, one does oneself a disservice by not evaluating the risks they may expose themselves to as well as those imposed upon us by others.

[Cookie Monster]

I remember this came up on PF a long time back and I'll attribute it to Jody H: "I don't want some tweaker's blood on me."

I hate tweaker blood on me so I stopped thinking about strike bezels since then and they put holes in your pocket and delay you at TSA and look a little weird and your toddler cuts their tongue sucking on your flashlight. (My 18 month olds shorted out 3 Surefire tailcaps.)

Just get a SureFire Fury and be done with it. You can jack someone pretty good with them, strike bezel not needed.

[Rex G]

I see a textured bezel as something to help gain traction on an opponent's skin, when trying such things as joint manipulations, or when simply using the tip to push an opponent away, not as something to increase the superficial damage to the skin during a strike. These are so very minor, as to be insignificant in the real world. Really, with all of the blood-borne pathogens to worry about, I would rather NOT make an opponent bleed, or "collect a DNA sample," all else being equal, anyway. So, overall, I do NOT consider sharp crennelations on the bezel of a small hand-held light to be value-added.

I had two Surefire M3 Millenium lights, one plain bezel, and one with a crenellated bezel. This just happened to be the way they were when I bought them. The crennelated bezel wore holes in my clothing, and scratched me a few times, so I planned to file or grind the sharp points, to dull them, but then lost that light, anyway. Again, the lesson is that sharp crennelations, on a small hand-held light, are NOT value-added. (Back in the day, the 225-lumen M3 bulb was THE WAY to get the attention of distracted motorists approaching me, as I directed traffic around night-time crash scenes. Today's 1000-lumen lights, of course, are better.)

[Chance]

Well, my original thinking was: if I hit someone on the head with something as hard as a flashlight, it's probably going to cut them anyway. But I didn't get the bezel to facilitate a superficial cut on the head, I bought it under the assumption it would be much more effective if used to strike soft tissue. I don't have much experience hitting people with things, so if that's a wrong-headed assumption, feel free to correct me.

I remember this came up on PF a long time back and I'll attribute it to Jody H: "I don't want some tweaker's blood on me."

For LEOs: making someone bleed prior to having to get control of them is definitely bad. I'm not a cop though, so my theory was that if a solid whack is enough to curb violent aggression, I'm going to high-tail it somewhere else. Again, that might be a flawed theory.

My 18 month olds shorted out 3 Surefire tailcaps.

My multi-hundred dollar flashlight can be broken by a baby? Phenomenal.

I see a textured bezel as something to help gain traction on an opponent's skin, when trying such things as joint manipulations, or when simply using the tip to push an opponent away, not as something to increase the superficial damage to the skin during a strike.

I hadn't considered it facilitating grappling. But my whole idea was not to having grapple in the first place. I've had one total day's worth of training with impact weapons, so I guess that's something I'm going to have to fix.

[Peally]

Bezels are great.




For tearing holes in your pants.

[hiro]

I have the VTAC version of the Surefire E1B (It doesn't have the low output setting, only 200 lumens). When I bought it, several years ago, I wasn't thinking as well as I could have. I've not carried it in a pocket for the reasons you've stated, it'll rip the pocket to shreds. On some of my pants there's a secondary slim pocket it clips well into but I don't like to clip it into the main (front) pockets as it's too bulky and restricts access/breaks my phone. On this light, the clip does allow for the light to be carried head up or down but with the head up it's not as snug and it's still bulky in a front pocket. I don't like to clip it to a rear pocket as I think I'll lose it and it's not comfortable to sit on.

With all that said, it normally lives in the messenger bag I carry most days. It's not as quick to get to but in all honesty, I don't foresee using it as a weapon.

I have a BFG 10 Speed belt mount double mag pouch and I tried it earlier today, I don't wear tight or oversized T shirts and while the light fits nicely into one side of the pouch, the pouch itself is not concealed by the T shirt. I'm fairly well disciplined in reaching to the pouch closest to centre for a magazine but won't say I couldn't draw a light in error. I tend to wear my pants on my hips and don't plan on changing that so the BFG pouch doesn't work for me. I think the BFG pouches can be mounted horizontally and that might aid concealment, I haven't tried it, nor do I practice drawing a mag from that position, next dry fire session I'll give it a try and report back if it works. If I clip the light to the outside of my belt it doesn't feel secure and if it's clipped between the belt and pants I don't find it easy to draw and it's slightly uncomfortable tho nothing I'd notice after getting used to it.

I won't replace this light just because of the bevel. Push comes to the shove I could mount it to a rifle but there's a Fury on there that's 3 times brighter. Given a choice again for everyday use, I'd not buy a light with a sharpened bevel.

ETA: Maybe, just maybe, there's a role for the sharpened bezel if you're trapped in a car or need to break glass. I've not tried it and therefore wouldn't bank on this as a reason to have it and in all honesty, I am not sure it will break auto glass. Nor am I going to try it on my car...

[Hambo]

Well, my original thinking was: if I hit someone on the head with something as hard as a flashlight, it's probably going to cut them anyway. But I didn't get the bezel to facilitate a superficial cut on the head, I bought it under the assumption it would be much more effective if used to strike soft tissue.

so my theory was that if a solid whack is enough to curb violent aggression, I'm going to high-tail it somewhere else. Again, that might be a flawed theory.

Under assumption #1 you might cause a superficial cut if you hit them in the head, and I doubt they'll noticed the difference anywhere else. But I'm willing to hit you a few times with one if you want to test it.

Theory #2 (one shot stops with light) requires a bigger light: SL20 or big Mag Lite. I guarantee that they'll notice the difference between a hit from one of those and a pocket light.

[Cookie Monster]

My multi-hundred dollar flashlight can be broken by a baby? Phenomenal.

Dude, babies/toddlers are crazy. My dudes were drool monsters. It was days and weeks of shoving the tailcap into the back of their mouths and working on those molars coming in. It was super cute when they would suck on the lens and it was on.

And I called Surefire and they sent 3 new tailcaps for free.