3 o'clock concealment draws from untucked shirt par times?

[scjbash]

I'll second Gio about wasted movement. I recommend watching your videos in slow motion looking for any wasted movement, and then working on eliminating the excess one problem at a time.

This is my IWB draw with a 1.1 par and no trigger press. I can break shots under 1.0 but where they hit is a crapshoot, as shown in the 3 yard challenge thread. That last .1 -.2 is hell.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....ment-challenge

To be consistent on an A zone at seven yards I need to stay in the 1.25 range, or closer to 1.15 if I'm shooting weekly and doing dry work.



I have two variations of my draw, and not by choice. Drawing at 1.5 or slower I'm able to get the gun level by the time I've reached extension. The press out used by a lot of folks here doesn't work for me and I prefer to take a straight line from the holster to extension. What I've found though is that when I push the speed I reach extension before the gun is level and the front sight is on target, and I have to lift the gun upward a couple/few inches as I apply the brakes. It makes it appear on video that I'm bowling from the holster, and what's actually happening isn't apparent unless you slow the video down. I worked at correcting that to no avail. I'm going to try one more time and if it continues I'm just going to live with it.

[BJXDS]

Following with interest. You may want to slow down and make sure you look the gun into the holster.

[fixer]

LSW,

Those times are about in line with mine for , like you said, accurate A zone hits.

I've pushed it a few dozen times and the best I could do was 1.2-1.4 at 7 yds. At 25 yds I have done 1.9 but I was only hoping to keep rounds in the C zone.

I carry at 3:00-3:30 and a Glock 19. It feels like I am way faster with a G17/G22 but the shot timer doesn't back it up.

[Gio]

Here are a couple videos I threw together tonight at 1.0 sec par time. Notice I am clearing the shirt with both hands, which gives me more forgiveness on the draw. I could shave .1 or so by using just my weak hand, but find that method to be inconsistent, especially with a longer shirt or button up. I also work to minimize any excess movement/travel of my hands/shoulders/body going to the gun and then presenting it out:



I attempted to get a few in slow motion, but the lack of lighting in my garage wasn't conducive to good video quality. You can still see general movement, however, and you can hear the amplified sound of the shot timer and trigger break:

[GyroF-16]

Also watching with interest. 1.6-1.8 seems very good from concealment in my experience. I'm using a USP Compact LEM in a VM2, and am usually right at 2.0 sec from 7 yds, so color me impressed.
I'll be looking to learn along with you.

Gyro

[LSW]

Part of my slowness might be idpa, haha. If I lean forward too much prior to the timer going off I've had saftey officers come up and push my chest back to a more upright position. Maybe I could at least lean forward to the shot break position when the buzzer goes off, because I agree there is a .1-.2 hesitation while the sights are almost on target. Also they don't like it if your hands are forward of your pant seams. In regard to my strong hand moving out, maybe it's because my shirts are pretty long, but that hand can get caught up in the shirt sweep if I don't move it away from my side a bit. I agree it could be less movement though and I'll work on that. I appreciate all the feedback so far.

[scjbash]

Part of my slowness might be idpa, haha. If I lean forward too much prior to the timer going off I've had saftey officers come up and push my chest back to a more upright position. Maybe I could at least lean forward to the shot break position when the buzzer goes off, because I agree there is a .1-.2 hesitation while the sights are almost on target.

My suggestion would be to eliminate the forward lean. I think you'll find it's unnecessary. If you look at the videos Gio and I posted you'll see we both stay upright. Leaning forward just isn't needed to control the gun. I used to do it and getting rid of it gave me a new base to work from that led to large improvements as a shooter.

[Mr_White]

Not the best angles I know, but I just had to try to set my phone on the bench. Give me your worst, my movements look very labored and jerky in the videos. Keep in mind every tailor I go to tells me I have freakishly long arms for my height.

5 yards: averaging about 1.68. 9 0's, 1 down 1. The down 1 was a messed up grip on the draw due to grabbing undershirt, ended up with half my finger through the trigger guard and it went high left into down 1 with a bad 1.83.




10 yards: averaging about 1.9, had 8 0's and 2 down 1's.

Now that I'm caught up on the thread, some of what I wrote here is redundant to thing you and others said...

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Maybe move the shirt a bit less, as well as your strong hand. There may be balance between that, and getting the shirt out of the way before your strong hand is getting on the grip (to avoid a handful of shirt around the gun.)

The elongated lean forward happening late in the draw looks like it would cause gun movement when you want to be stopping, aiming, and finalizing trigger. Get the gun all the way out and bring it to a smooth stop quickly.

Let the gun pause on target just a little longer after firing rather than rocketing back toward the holster as soon as the shot is away.

Holster slower and with less force. That's too hard and fast to put the gun into the holster.

It's best if we have a view of everything that moves. If possible get your hands into the frame even at their start position, and the gun into the frame when it is fully extended and firing - horizontal video frame is usually better than vertical.

[LSW]

My suggestion would be to eliminate the forward lean. I think you'll find it's unnecessary. If you look at the videos Gio and I posted you'll see we both stay upright. Leaning forward just isn't needed to control the gun. I used to do it and getting rid of it gave me a new base to work from that led to large improvements as a shooter.

Speaking of which, I was reading stoeger's practical pistol book, he doesn't really lean at all, I need to finish reading it. I just can't seem to fire with bent elbows without a full press out like he does though. As a matter of fact he was shooting in the bay next to me when I shot these videos . Should've had him sign my ipad.

[LSW]

Now that I'm caught up on the thread, some of what I wrote here is redundant to thing you and others said...

---

Maybe move the shirt a bit less, as well as your strong hand. There may be balance between that, and getting the shirt out of the way before your strong hand is getting on the grip (to avoid a handful of shirt around the gun.)

The elongated lean forward happening late in the draw looks like it would cause gun movement when you want to be stopping, aiming, and finalizing trigger. Get the gun all the way out and bring it to a smooth stop quickly.

Let the gun pause on target just a little longer after firing rather than rocketing back toward the holster as soon as the shot is away.

Holster slower and with less force. That's too hard and fast to put the gun into the holster.

It's best if we have a view of everything that moves. If possible get your hands into the frame even at their start position, and the gun into the frame when it is fully extended and firing - horizontal video frame is usually better than vertical.

That's a good point, I really appreciate the advice. I will try to setup a better video next time I practice draws. Thanks for the critique on re-holstering, I do need to work on being safer on that.....I even dropped the gun in practice one day a few months back. Luckily it was already unloaded, but I DQ'd myself from pracitce and stopped shooting to think about it.