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Thread: Active Self Protection

  1. #21
    Member Zincwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJXDS View Post
    If your going to put the time effort and money required to be able to make fast accurate hits why would leave the option of a proven quality bullet out?
    I'm not. The argument I am making however is that its not the type of bullet or caliber.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Zincwarrior View Post
    I do believe FBI stats/ballistics tests disagree with you on that. not enough difference to be material. Placement is what matters.
    So you load up with target ball and call it good ?

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Zincwarrior View Post
    I'm not. The argument I am making however is that its not the type of bullet or caliber.

    And you're of the opinion that Doc's work on terminal ballistics is a waste of time - , as is the FBI's, military's, and LE agencies' interest in such type work ?

    I suspect you have come to a conclusion based on bad logic. Yes, its been found that good service pistol JHP ammo in 9mm, 40, and 45ACP perform in a similar manner in terms of terminal ballistics. Caliber choice doesnt matter much with well designed JHPs. Many institutions are going back to 9mm for that reason. - - That does Not mean that bullet design doesn't matter at all, however.
    Last edited by SamAdams; 04-20-2017 at 03:25 PM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by SamAdams View Post
    And you're of the opinion that Doc's work on terminal ballistics is a waste of time - , as is the FBI's, military's, and LE agencies' interest in such type work ?

    I suspect you have come to a conclusion based on bad logic. Yes, its been found that good service pistol JHP ammo in 9mm, 40, and 45ACP perform in a similar manner in terms of terminal ballistics. Caliber choice doesnt matter much with well designed JHPs. Many institutions are going back to 9mm for that reason. - - That does Not mean that bullet design doesn't matter at all, however.
    Good discussion here. I read all of my colleague, Dr. Roberts' work here, and elsewhere, too. However, don't forget that when discussing the results of his scientific testing, he always adds this specific corollary to the end the said discussion:



    Cheers [emoji482]


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #25
    @ Dr House - yes, that's true. Pick out ammo from 'The List' and then go out and get some training and trigger time.


    But, that's quite a bit different position than the vague claim that it doesn't matter at all what ammo is used.

    Hopefully, someone won't chime in next with "a hit with a lousy bullet, is better than a miss with a good one !"


    BTW - I've had face-to-face conversations where I've mentioned Doc's list and the other person was of the opinion that all ammo is about the same. They buy what they can find on LGS shelves and is cheapest.- - - Okey dokey, . . that's their choice.
    Last edited by SamAdams; 04-20-2017 at 08:02 PM.

  6. #26
    Not quite sure I get the discussion point about ammo. It would make some sense if the ammo on the list was super duper classified and impossible to buy, but it's not. Nor is it truly cost prohibitive. We aren't talking about buying $100 boxes of ammo here. All the ammo on the list is pretty much readily available, so why not get some? Unless the ammo on the list doesn't function in your gun or you shoot them like a shotgun pattern I don't see the reason to not get them.

  7. #27
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