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Thread: God damn it Colt

  1. #41
    Site Supporter Tamara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45dotACP View Post
    1 for 2...Kimber became something of a joke.
    He was a plankholder. He left before it really turned into self-parody.

    As I was reminded by several smart people at SHOT, it was the rainbow TiNi guns and cheesy Chicom optics that kept the company afloat long enough to develop P320s and MPXs and stand up their own optics and ammo houses.
    Last edited by Tamara; 02-25-2017 at 08:07 PM.
    Books. Bikes. Boomsticks.

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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara View Post
    Looking back at my smartass comments of ~2004-'05 from the vantage point of 2017, I've had to eat some Ron Cohen crow. Say what I will about diamond-plate P238s, but the dude took a company that was circling the drain and has turned it into the frickin' Death Star of the domestic firearms industry.
    Quote Originally Posted by 45dotACP View Post
    1 for 2...Kimber became something of a joke. Sure, Sig is still considered acceptably serious, but if I were a betting man, I'd probably say screw those odds and just turn to Springfield or Caspian for my 1911 needs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara View Post
    He was a plankholder. He left before it really turned into self-parody.

    As I was reminded by several smart people at SHOT, it was the rainbow TiNi guns and cheesy Chicom optics that kept the company afloat long enough to develop P320s and MPXs and stand up their own optics and ammo houses.


    Does anybody know when Ron Cohen was hired by Kimber, and when Kimber QC went down the toilet? According to Bloomberg, Ron Cohen was hired by Sig in 2004 and became the CEO in 2005. Before that, again according to Bloomberg, Cohen was the General Manager at Kimber "from its inception on the East Coast in 1996".

  3. #43
    Site Supporter Tamara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff S. View Post
    Does anybody know when Ron Cohen was hired by Kimber, and when Kimber QC went down the toilet?
    Cohen was a plankholder at "Kimber the 1911 company", which is a company that basically bought the name and 07 of a semidefunct rifle builder in the PNW.

    As I remember it from the retail end, Kimber QC started its first wobbles in '01, as they basically became victims of their own success, and really took it in the shorts with the disastrous "Series II" rollout.

    The company was basically built on the idea that you could buy frames and slides and small parts and build IDPA/USPSA-ready "custom" 1911s for not much more than Colt and Springfield were selling basic Government Model-type pistols for at the time. For the first few years in the late '90s, Kimber pistols were phenomenal values for the money, but the profit margins didn't scale well with meteoric growth and shortcuts needed to be taken.
    Books. Bikes. Boomsticks.

    I can explain it to you. I can’t understand it for you.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    In this particular case the UAW colluded with management first. They introduced the "inept" management as we see it today. And over the years and bankruptcy's have continued to deny Colt's owners the ability to renegotiate its biggest financial liabilities, UAW contracts and pensions.

    At this point Colt will never get better. Colt is a corpse being sucked dry by financial vampires. Scien's clearly showed this in the latest bankruptcy case, where it basically managed to screw creditors out of ~50 million or so in monies owed to them AND convince secured credit holders to give them an additional 150 million in capital. And Scien's laughed all the way to the bank, when their executives got some 15-million in quarterly bonuses. They will continue to do the bare minimum to prop up the legacy brand. It will flounder and they will convince another set of chumps to buy in to save it...until eventually it can't be saved at all. Then it will be sold off to the highest bidder.

    And that bidder will do one of two things 1) Start the Scien's blood draining process over. or 2) Invest millions getting Colt up to date in the industry. Only to start to lose their ass at a later date and require investors they can't find, because Colt has failed too many times. And they end up selling Colt to recover pennies on the dollar back to people like Scien's.

    It's all a scam at this point.



    Like a friend who needs to hit rock bottom. This is precisely what we need to all do. Only when Colt finally falls is there any chance it can be redeemed...but I won't hold my breath.

    ___

    My final thoughts on this:

    If your dealer has a Colt right now you want? Buy it. The dealer has already spent the money for it, line his pocket. This isn't the complete and utter end for Colt, but its products aren't going to get any better than right now, in terms of quality, availability, or variety. They aren't likely to make very many more of whatever XYZ model you want.

    The Cobra will never make it to market.

    Hopefully, this is a culling of UAW contracts and a freeing up of capital to turn the corner. But my gut instinct is that Scien's has not real interest in turning the company around. I only hope the bond-holders can convince them to or force them to actually sell. I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

    How does this work exactly? And why is it good to cut pensions of the men and women that helped build the company all those years ago? It wasn't managment that got it to where it was.

  5. #45
    Site Supporter OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara View Post
    ...the profit margins didn't scale well with meteoric growth and shortcuts needed to be taken.
    There's a reason production proof parts are often required to be run at production rate and in production lot sizes. Weird stuff can happen just by trying to do exactly the same thing, but a lot more of it. That applies to both in-house and contracted parts and processes.
    .
    -----------------------------------------
    Not another dime.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Morbidbattlecry View Post
    How does this work exactly? And why is it good to cut pensions of the men and women that helped build the company all those years ago? It wasn't managment that got it to where it was.
    Eliminate that which is killing you. It's basic survival. The old mantra of maximizing shareholder value is horse shit now. Just look at Amazon. They treat their employees like animals and they have the highest rated reputation this year based on the Reputation Quotient Ratings and they received over half of the internet's sales growth in 2016. You can be insanely successful and an asshole simultaneously. Quite frankly though, the union design has shown a pattern of overplaying their hand to their own demise. That's why relying on a private company pension is a stupid idea.
    Bob Loblaw lobs law bombs

  7. #47
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    I've been in three unions in my lifetime and I liken them to social security's ponsi deal. it only works when more money coming in than going out.. Unions work great when times are good and lots of money is coming in. They can be killers when times are tough. I have a hard time blaming unions though when you see CEOs making millions as the company is tanking. It's like a run on a bank. The rumors start; smart people know if everybody takes out their money the bank will fail but everybody thinks I don't care I want my money now. Did colt cash in on the Obama years? Every gun store I go in has very few colts. I'm always told they can't get them. But there sure is a lot of kimbers and sig 1911s

  8. #48
    Revolvers Revolvers 1911s Stephanie B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    Just look at Amazon. They treat their employees like animals
    They treat their employees like Russian infantrymen. Or interchangeable parts.
    If we have to march off into the next world, let us walk there on the bodies of our enemies.

  9. #49
    Revolvers Revolvers 1911s Stephanie B's Avatar
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    I've worked both sides in union shops. What I came to appreciate was that a decent union helped minimize the poisonous influence of petty favoritism.
    If we have to march off into the next world, let us walk there on the bodies of our enemies.

  10. #50
    Site Supporter rob_s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    I won't blame the union for that. If everyone is simply sucking the corpse dry, why let your money be taken to be sucked up by someone else? Even if their liabilities are wiped clean, until they get a revenue source figured out, that's just a time extension and not a solution.
    Which union do you belong to?

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