Question for those who use an optic on you edc

[Rex G]

I'm old school. I have no anything attached to any gun, especially my carry gun (Sig P239 .40 S&W).

If you were to consider the proximity of 90+% of gunfights, sights are unnecessary. It's all about point shooting while getting the hell outta the sight picture of an adversary.

Practice point shooting at 10'.

Yes, practice point shooting at 10 feet. Nothing wrong with that. The reality is that an attacker might be standing beyond my wife, using her as a field-expedient shield. If I have only practiced point-shooting, I am going to have a problem. The reality is that my GSD* might well remember her heritage, and go for an attacker. If I have only practiced point-shooting, I am going to have a problem. The reality is that an attacker might be wearing an explosive vest, and saying something about Allah being great. If I cannot shoot him/her in the face, I am going to have a problem. If my attacker is using hard cover, and I am stuck in a fatal funnel, there is no X to GTFO, so I will have a problem.

I shoot an old-school PD qual; 20% of my shots are "hip-shooting," fired from well below the line-of-sight. Actually, I do not disagree with such a large percentage of our shots being point-shooting. I do disagree with the instructors who hold us to the elbow-against-lower body standard, as I prefer to extend the weapon farther forward, as taught/described by the late Bill Jordan, formerly of the U.S. Border Patrol, or to shoot from a high #2, as taught by SouthNarc.

FWIW, I really have shot an attacker, at the approximate distance I hip-shoot on the qual line. Did I hip-shoot? No. Did I point-shoot? Well, partly, yes, but it was, two-handed, arms more-or-less isosceles, looking over my GP100. Had he been painted to resemble a B-27 target, well, I hit the X, which concluded all hostile actions instantly. Had he managed to first grab one of the other persons present, and been using him as a shield, well, it would have been time to align the sights with my eyes, and to drop the blade into the notch.

*One is no longer relatively safe while walking a dog. People are being hijacked for their dogs these days. And, no, I am not going to shoot through my dog to nail an attacker; the search for a really good dog takes years, with some amount of trial and error.

[vandal]

Maybe here I can ask about "perfect" RMR dot-acquiring presentation reps. I'll buy that with enough (i.e. Always More) reps one could perfect presentation while standing square to a flat range static target when everything is the same each time. But how do you perfect reps for the unpredictable real world? One hand off angle under a car whatever. I haven't seen the "just practice more" crowd address that.


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[octagon]

Maybe here I can ask about "perfect" RMR dot-acquiring presentation reps. I'll buy that with enough (i.e. Always More) reps one could perfect presentation while standing square to a flat range static target when everything is the same each time. But how do you perfect reps for the unpredictable real world? One hand off angle under a car whatever. I haven't seen the "just practice more" crowd address that.


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I'm not a red dot on pistols yet( I will be working on it soon) but would the presentation be any different with iron sights if not practiced? My guess is that it wouldn't and practicing as many varied positions and conditions as reasonable would appear to be best practice. The actual use may end up being slightly different but applicable to a similar position/condition that has been practiced or it may be different enough not to be. In the latter case extra time may be needed to acquire the dot much like it would be to acquire the sight(s) Just my 2 cents worth of opinion if I understand your question correctly.

[OnionsAndDragons]

Maybe here I can ask about "perfect" RMR dot-acquiring presentation reps. I'll buy that with enough (i.e. Always More) reps one could perfect presentation while standing square to a flat range static target when everything is the same each time. But how do you perfect reps for the unpredictable real world? One hand off angle under a car whatever. I haven't seen the "just practice more" crowd address that.


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This is a big reason why a lot of professionals running RDS pistols also have a laser or laser-equipped light on those guns. It is very hard to perfect this sort presentation on an open RDS, easier IME on something enclosed like a T-1.

I think the debate on RDS presentation is a more wonky discussion about a very flat presentation where ones sights are just refining/barely settling near the extension vs. one where your sights are not coming in basically aligned until very near the extension point. There is also something to be said about different people having stronger natural index going in to RDS shooting. If you naturally index your gun very flat, you will have a dot finding advantage over someone that has to use more conscious control to level out.

It's easier for some people to think about it on a rifle. With an RDS on a rifle you point it at the threat and the dot is there.that is how it ought to be in a pistol presentation for optimal use, but may not easily jive with everyone's optimal iron sighted presentation. At least that it my personal experience of it.

[YVK]

Maybe here I can ask about "perfect" RMR dot-acquiring presentation reps. I'll buy that with enough (i.e. Always More) reps one could perfect presentation while standing square to a flat range static target when everything is the same each time. But how do you perfect reps for the unpredictable real world? One hand off angle under a car whatever. I haven't seen the "just practice more" crowd address that.


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USPSA Carry Optics. I consider it a lucky stage when I get to draw from a static position on a static target.

[GJM]

My CO pistols don't have BUIS, and I don't have any problem finding the dot. A technique that helps me, is that when presenting the pistol, rather than "look for the dot," I center the target in optic display, and that reliably makes the dot appear. Conversely, drawing to the dot can lead to hunting.

[GJM]

Near the end of my combination PCC/CO practice session, I decided to do six one shot draws to the PF target at 7 yards with my MOS 17/DP Pro, out of my BT OWB range holster. This pistol has no BUIS. I managed all six draws to a hit within the six inch circle, inside the eight inch larger circle. Times ranged from .77-.85.

This was warmed up, not from concealment, and a report from today as opposed to a prediction for tomorrow. However, the lack of BUIS didn't seem to be holding me back in speed.