Originally Posted by TGS
Better stock up on ammo now.
The Trump effect.
Better stock up on ammo now.
The Trump effect.
HSI is supposedly getting 1500 new 1811s/Special Agents out of the 10000 total for ICE. The remaining 8500 are for 1801s/Immigration Enforcement Agents -Deportation Officers for ERO.
Where is the money to do this?
Re HSI: HSI is a bell curve like everyone else but in some offices there is still very much a legacy Customs culture with managers, agents or both not really interested in immigration related cases. There are still some anti smuggling groups in hub cities and legacy INS SA's here and there doing the work but many of them got discouraged and jumped to ERO or retired. New SA's take the hint from management so I don't blame them, why fight the power ? Kiddie porn, dope and ITAR are all legit work but so are immigration fraud and human smuggling.
Re ERO: Trying to hire 8500 LEO's would be an issue for any agency.
1) Every mass LE hire brings in "bad apples" i.e. criminals with badges. It was true for the New Orleans, Miami and DC Police Departments, the USBP, and it was true for ERO 10 years ago.
2) About 10 years ago ICE ERO pumped up from about 3k to 7-8K in a few years. This resulted in trainees in academy classes without completed background checks getting pulled out of classes due to undisclosed criminal convictions etc.
3) To add those 4 k to 5k required 48 man classes (24 is normal for FLETC) on 6 day per week training schedules. It also required advanced / in-service training for many agencies move out of the main FLETC in Glynco to satellite facilities.
Lets just say "no agent left behind" is not a recipe for success in anyone's book.
USBP Agents are the only ones who can lateral into ERO positions as they have both complete training in Immigration law and the requisite Spanish language proficiency. Immigration law is one of the more complex subjects taught at FLETC. Spanish language proficiency training has a higher attrition rate that the actual ERO LEO academy.
Honestly what we need to do immigration enforcement is not more officers. Without increased post arrest support it is actually counter productive.
As TGS noted in #3 of his OP we need:
1) More detention space to end catch and release.
2) More Immigration Judges and ICE attorneys to speed up deportation proceedings. It should not take 10 years with 2-3 years between hearings to deport someone.
3) More SAUSAs (Special AUSAs) dedicated to immigration prosecutions and more federal magistrates and USMS detention space to prosecute immigration related crimes.
You will never get compliance with immigration laws if you don't have timely and significant consequences for breaking them. It's as simple as that.
There are currently about 339,000 deportation cases pending in the U.S. and only 250 immigration judges. Right now you have about 20,000 US BP Agents, 20,000 CBP Officers and another 17,000 or so ICE Officers and agents adding to this case load every day. The math just does not work.
A thread on the subject: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....-can-t-keep-up
Last edited by HCM; 02-22-2017 at 09:47 PM.
TGS asked what 10,000 more ICE officers would cost. This is a gun forum so lets look at ammo.Better stock up on ammo now.
The Trump effect.
So the average trainee fires about 2,000 rounds in the academy. 10,000 trainees would require 20,000,000 rounds for basic training.
When they graduate, basic duty carry is loaded gun plus 2 mags - 46 rounds with a P320C. That is 460,000 round just for walking around with at any one time.
Average ERO LEO fires 600 to 1,000 rounds per year. More in special units so lets say 1,000.
10,000 officers each shooting 1,000 rounds per year is 10,000,000 round per year.
That is 200,000,000 rounds in training and qualification plus 20,000,000 in the academy.
So the 20 year life cycle of 10,000 additional ICE officers is a minimum of 220,000,000 rounds of pistol ammo. At .20 cents per round that is $44,000,000 in ammo and we haven't even talked about M-4's or SMG's yet.
Remember that the next time the tinfoil hat people start talking about the DHS ammo contract.
Last edited by HCM; 02-22-2017 at 09:34 PM.
"A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking about real money." - Attributed to the late Sen. Everett Dirksen
There's nothing civil about this war.
DOs make journeyman at GS12, correct? With LEAP or AUO I'm guessing, so that's an additional 25% on top of base pay + locality. Let's just call it $100k/year for the average journeyman...there's obviously going to be differences on where they're posted affecting locality, and their step affecting pay.....but as a rough, non-scientific ballpark how about we use $100k/year for a salaried DO after their first few years on the job.
Just for one year, that's $850 Million just in salary they're collecting....not counting benefits, overtime, TDY/per diem monies, and employer costs.
Just to be perfectly clear, I'm not complaining that any LEO, including an ICE DO, is overpaid. But damn.....that's a lot of money. I'm sure if someone smart were king for a day they could move stuff around and make that work (do we really need a consulate in Peshawar?), but holy cow that is a lot of money we don't necessarily have.
The costs only go up from there. Vehicles, purchasing more individual equipment, promoting more supervisors and support staff so the apparatus can effectively manage, and so on.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
Your figures sound about right.
ERO has less than 8k LEO's. you are talking about more than doubling the agency.
A better place to use some of that money:
http://keyetv.com/news/local/as-ice-...s-cant-keep-up
Hopefully the hiring will start soon. Has there been much talk of when the hiring will take place?
Last edited by TheNewbie; 02-22-2017 at 10:36 PM.
When ever Trump gets ICE the money.
Federal agency budget cycles are done in 3 year cycles. FY 17 budget was drafted in FY 15 and approved in FY 16.
Even if Trump drops a pot o'gold in ICE's lap it would take 6 months to allocate it.
Last edited by HCM; 02-22-2017 at 11:35 PM.
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