A discussion on optics durability

[ASH556]

Some recent events with a friend's optics on his duty rifle have led to some conversations between he and I regarding optics quality and durability. I know we have some members here with legit long-term hard-use experience with optics. Not to exclude anyone, but guys like SLG, SeanM, F2S, Wayne Dobbs, just to mention a few.

Let's lay out a usage criteria: Intermediate range (25-600 yds) on a 5.56 carbine. Not specifically for entry/room clearing, but may be "pressed into" that role if it comes down to it.

The Low-power-variable (1-4, 1-5, 1-6, 1-8) seems to be the new hotness for all this, and while it works in theory, I've seen and experienced enough failures to make me gunshy; even from the top names. Other options are ACOGs and Aimpoint + magnifier.

Some of the LPV's I've seen/heard of failing:
NF 1-4
Trijicon Accupower 1-4
Burris (anything)
Bushnell

Some others are disqualified in my mind due to design characteristics:
Vortex Razor 1-6, heavy and useless for CQB if illumination fails (battery dies)
Leupold Mark 6 1-6, useless for CQB if illumination fails (battery dies)
Anything with exposed, non-locking turrets

Let's assume that we're talking about individual sustainability. Not, "we're going on this mission, fully-supplied with new batteries, air support, etc" but more like "we might be out here awhile and/or riding around in a patrol vehicle for awhile and then be called upon to perform at a moment's notice."

Aimpoint + magnifier combo:
CONS:
pretty narrow FOV
No holdover mechanism, so magnification only gets you target ID, not increased range.
PROS:
Great battery life (years)
Great 1X speed
Magnifier removable when not needed

ACOG:
CONS:
Fixed magnification
Load-specific BDC
PROS:
No batteries needed. Manage the FO bloom and you're golden
Etched reticle...something to see and aim with regardless of light conditions

At this point in the game, I'm beginning to wonder again if something like the Leupold 1.5-5 might be a better bet in terms of weight and durability. With the right reticle, daylight bright illumination is not required. I'm also strongly considering going back to a TA11H ACOG.

Please share your thoughts and experiences.

[Luke]

You don't like any of the top offerings that are known to be very robust and of great quality but you want a $350 leupold?

[ASH556]

You don't like any of the top offerings that are known to be very robust and of great quality but you want a $350 leupold?

Yeah, maybe.

[PNWTO]

I don't think I would have any concerns using a NF NXS or USO LPV, or even Vortex's Razor 1-6x or the PST LPV and am planning on buying some combination of those four. However, it is hard to argue against a RDS w/magnifier for defensive/offensive/badshithappening purposes. I just happen to like the LPV thing, as well as the fact I like all of my long guns set up to take game animals. Of course, you can hunt with a RDS but for my uses and terrain I don't think it is optimal. T

I have never been a fan of the ACOG despite a semi-constant urge to possess an imitation of the rifle I was issued. I do think they are handy but for the price I feel I have better options.

I would be very interested to hear more about the failures you mentioned.

[ASH556]

I don't think I would have any concerns using a NF NXS or USO LPV, or even Vortex's Razor 1-6x or the PST LPV and am planning on buying some combination of those four. However, it is hard to argue against a RDS w/magnifier for defensive/offensive/badshithappening purposes. I just happen to like the LPV thing, as well as the fact I like all of my long guns set up to take game animals. Of course, you can hunt with a RDS but for my uses and terrain I don't think it is optimal. T

I have never been a fan of the ACOG despite a semi-constant urge to possess an imitation of the rifle I was issued. I do think they are handy but for the price I feel I have better options.

I would be very interested to hear more about the failures you mentioned.

NF - foreign debris (delamination?) inside scope...still out for review by NF.
Trijicon Accupower - foreign debris inside scope...found by Trijicon to be brass shavings from mis-installed turrets.
Burris - rotated reticles
Bushnell - inconsistent glass, repeatability

As I mentioned in my post, some of the other issues aren't so much failures as they are design flaws (in my opinion).

[Default.mp3]

Can the CQB issue with LPVOs be mitigated by an offset MRDS or BUIS, or perhaps a laser?

Is the BDC really that big an issue on the ACOG? Are there any downsides to simply figuring out your dope with each different load and keeping it on a card or memorizing it?

[ASH556]

Can the CQB issue with LPVOs be mitigated by an offset MRDS or BUIS, or perhaps a laser?

Yes, to one degree or another. And/or point shooting over the top of the scope turret depending on target size and distance. The Laser thing is something I'm actually considering. One of the little Crimson Trace Railmaster units.

Is the BDC really that big an issue on the ACOG? Are there any downsides to simply figuring out your dope with each different load and keeping it on a card or memorizing it?

I don't think it really is that big an issue...others seem to. I don't plan to shoot more than one or 2 loads (especially at the distances it would matter), so just learning the BDC dope for that load seems like a good idea to me.

[TR675]

In a recent biathlon I used an Aimpoint and magnifier with 6920 and was very competitive with the LPV guys shooting at ranges out to 4-500 yards on some fairly small targets.

Now, I've used an LPV exactly zero times ever, but given that performance, for practical use it's hard to imagine that I have a "need" (as opposed to want) for one.


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[CS Tactical]

NF - foreign debris (delamination?) inside scope...still out for review by NF.
Trijicon Accupower - foreign debris inside scope...found by Trijicon to be brass shavings from mis-installed turrets.
Burris - rotated reticles
Bushnell - inconsistent glass, repeatability

As I mentioned in my post, some of the other issues aren't so much failures as they are design flaws (in my opinion).

Moving a metric ton of optics here, practically all brands and models have had a variation of those problems.
So on defensive guns I'd recommend a QD mount for the LPV or red dot and back up sights just in case.

[eb07]

I am going to go ahead and give my SWFA 1-6 a lot of props. I have ran through multiple carbine courses with it. It has seen some abuse and it has endured over 5K rounds of 308 on my SCAR and is still working great.

The ADM delta qd mount has held zero very well.

I cannot say enough good things about it.