Product Idea(s)

[Soggy]

Like most folks, every once in a while I get ideas popping in my head, but usually don't pursue them for a variety of reasons. I don't feel like researching patentability, marketability, filing a patent, finding an interested company etc etc. But I can post it on an open internet forum and see what people think, and if someone with wants to take the idea and run with it, Mazel Tov. If other folks want to chime in with what a dumb idea it is, well, that would also be very helpful. Then I can quit wondering about it.

Latest idea to pop in my head: Why not integrate scope rings bases into an upper? The benefits would be a rock solid mount, and less weight. If desired you could add a small rail section between the ring bases for an offset red dot, or just integrate some offset irons into the upper (peep rear, post front) .

Not everyone wants a scope on their AR, but some percentage of the market does. For bolt actions, the percentage is even greater.

What do you think? Has this been done before? Derpy?

Anybody else have other ideas that might be useful?

[fishing]

if you are talking about having actual scope rings integrated (not just bases), there are a few issues that pop up immediately.

1 - ring diameter - scopes may be swapped out/upgraded and may have diff ring sizes - 30mm or 34mm etc
2 - mounting position - various scopes have different lengths, layout of adjustment knobs etc so it is useful to be able to move rings to compensate and adjust for the owner. same goes with adjusting for proper eye relief.
3 - many people want to be able to remove an optic asap on their bolt guns if they need to go back to back up irons.

[Malamute]

In the early/mid 80s I messed around with a light mount on an AR. I machined a clamp, and machined the base of a min-mag light for a subminiature headphone jack, then drilled the triangle fore end for a small momentary on button switch and wired it to the jack in the light. It worked ok, but the light wasn't that great. It sufficed for a camp gun if the batteries were fresh.

Probably not much market for a light on a gun.

[Soggy]

if you are talking about having actual scope rings integrated (not just bases), there are a few issues that pop up immediately.

1 - ring diameter - scopes may be swapped out/upgraded and may have diff ring sizes - 30mm or 34mm etc
2 - mounting position - various scopes have different lengths, layout of adjustment knobs etc so it is useful to be able to move rings to compensate and adjust for the owner. same goes with adjusting for proper eye relief.
3 - many people want to be able to remove an optic asap on their bolt guns if they need to go back to back up irons.

By ring bases, my nomenclature might be wrong, but I mean the lower half of the ring. The upper half being bolted to the lower half, and can't be attached to the lower.

1+2) Yep, but looking at SWFA site, over 80% of the 1x? scopes are 30mm, so that might be a good place to start. There could be a ring placement that is good for 80% of those. Agree buis could be an issue, that is why I mentioned some built in offset ones.

[fishing]

By ring bases, my nomenclature might be wrong, but I mean the lower half of the ring. The upper half being bolted to the lower half, and can't be attached to the lower.

1+2) Yep, but looking at SWFA site, over 80% of the 1x? scopes are 30mm, so that might be a good place to start. There could be a ring placement that is good for 80% of those. Agree buis could be an issue, that is why I mentioned some built in offset ones.

i'd be giving up a number of things to essentially save the weight of 2-4 screws and a very small amount of aluminum or steel. i dont think many people would go for that...

[BillSWPA]

Like most folks, every once in a while I get ideas popping in my head, but usually don't pursue them for a variety of reasons. I don't feel like researching patentability, marketability, filing a patent, finding an interested company etc etc. But I can post it on an open internet forum and see what people think, and if someone with wants to take the idea and run with it, Mazel Tov. If other folks want to chime in with what a dumb idea it is, well, that would also be very helpful. Then I can quit wondering about it.

Latest idea to pop in my head: Why not integrate scope rings bases into an upper? The benefits would be a rock solid mount, and less weight. If desired you could add a small rail section between the ring bases for an offset red dot, or just integrate some offset irons into the upper (peep rear, post front) .

Not everyone wants a scope on their AR, but some percentage of the market does. For bolt actions, the percentage is even greater.

What do you think? Has this been done before? Derpy?

Anybody else have other ideas that might be useful?

In about 19 years of practicing patent law, I have seen very few inventors succeed in getting a larger company to license their idea. Those that succeed tend to be well known experts with pre-existing relationships with the licensing company. Numerous invention promotion scams make a lot of money from the mistaken idea that seeking license agreements from large companies is the way to profit from an invention.

Although there are ideas for which pursuing licensing makes the most sense, if someone were really serious about bringing an idea to market, the most likely way to succeed is bringing it to market oneself. This is absolutely not an easy road, but with the resources available for startups today, it is easier than it has been in the past. These resources include websites ike Kickstarter which enable test marketing as well as a means of fundraising that does not involve giving up equity. Advice on starting a business can be found through multiple Small Business Development Centers affiliated with various business colleges, as well as local chapters of SCORE (an organization of volunteer business counselors who are retired business people), Tech Shop, various startup incubators, etc.

Patents are critical for protecting ideas, but patents do not automatically result in profit. Commercialization is what results in profit. I would encourage consideration of one's commitment to commercialization before pursuing a patent.

[okie john]

Like most folks, every once in a while I get ideas popping in my head, but usually don't pursue them for a variety of reasons. I don't feel like researching patentability, marketability, filing a patent, finding an interested company etc etc. But I can post it on an open internet forum and see what people think, and if someone with wants to take the idea and run with it, Mazel Tov. If other folks want to chime in with what a dumb idea it is, well, that would also be very helpful. Then I can quit wondering about it.

Latest idea to pop in my head: Why not integrate scope rings bases into an upper? The benefits would be a rock solid mount, and less weight. If desired you could add a small rail section between the ring bases for an offset red dot, or just integrate some offset irons into the upper (peep rear, post front) .

Not everyone wants a scope on their AR, but some percentage of the market does. For bolt actions, the percentage is even greater.

What do you think? Has this been done before? Derpy?

Anybody else have other ideas that might be useful?

It has the benefits you mentioned, but it limits versatility as others have described. Also, if you strip one of the rings, then your entire upper is out of service.

All things considered, 1913 rail is one of the best things to happen to rifle shooters since the optical sight. Before it came along, every maker had their own version of rings and bases. Interchangeability was limited, and your rifle and mount dictated the ring spacing, which meant that you often had to crank your head around to get a decent cheek weld and the right eye relief. Offset rings were hard to find, more expensive, and a general pain in the ass, and God help you if you needed one that was anything other than a low or a medium. A typical ring and base system had at least 7 screws and often as many as a dozen, any of which could come loose at any time. 1913 and other integral base systems (like Ruger) eliminate a lot of that worry. 1913 also lets you space the rings however they need to be, whether your optic is a long-tube target scope or a low-powered variable. It also gives you plenty of wiggle room to get eye relief right. It puts everyone on the same page, and it was LONG overdue when it finally arrived.

A great idea would be something that brings the same benefits to mounting optics on handguns. Nobody has cracked that nut just yet.


Okie John

[okie john]

1+2) Yep, but looking at SWFA site, over 80% of the 1x? scopes are 30mm, so that might be a good place to start. There could be a ring placement that is good for 80% of those. Agree buis could be an issue, that is why I mentioned some built in offset ones.

80% of new scopes on that site may be 30mm, but a LOT of folks out there think that 30mm is unnecessary. 1" has been the standard since WWII, and if it was good enough for Grandpa, then it's good enough for them. Plus not everyone buys a new scope every time they buy a rifle--a lot of folks use one of the several 1" scopes they have lying around.


Okie John

[Soggy]

In about 19 years of practicing patent law, I have seen very few inventors succeed in getting a larger company to license their idea. Those that succeed tend to be well known experts with pre-existing relationships with the licensing company. Numerous invention promotion scams make a lot of money from the mistaken idea that seeking license agreements from large companies is the way to profit from an invention.

Although there are ideas for which pursuing licensing makes the most sense, if someone were really serious about bringing an idea to market, the most likely way to succeed is bringing it to market oneself. This is absolutely not an easy road, but with the resources available for startups today, it is easier than it has been in the past. These resources include websites ike Kickstarter which enable test marketing as well as a means of fundraising that does not involve giving up equity. Advice on starting a business can be found through multiple Small Business Development Centers affiliated with various business colleges, as well as local chapters of SCORE (an organization of volunteer business counselors who are retired business people), Tech Shop, various startup incubators, etc.

Patents are critical for protecting ideas, but patents do not automatically result in profit. Commercialization is what results in profit. I would encourage consideration of one's commitment to commercialization before pursuing a patent.

Bill, I agree with everything you said. That is why I don't want to invest anything in this idea (and a few other I may bring up) other than taking the time to type it up and put it out in the public domain. If someone takes it and runs with it cool. If it sparks other folks to think of something else that is new and useful that would be great. If people have convincing arguments why it is a dumb idea that is also useful to me so I don't have to wonder about it. Thanks for sharing you experience.

[BillSWPA]

Bill, I agree with everything you said. That is why I don't want to invest anything in this idea (and a few other I may bring up) other than taking the time to type it up and put it out in the public domain. If someone takes it and runs with it cool. If it sparks other folks to think of something else that is new and useful that would be great. If people have convincing arguments why it is a dumb idea that is also useful to me so I don't have to wonder about it. Thanks for sharing you experience.

Understood. My reason for responding was to try to put some nails in the coffin of the idea that the best way to profit from an invention is to try to find someone else to license it. I would much rather see inventors approaching patenting and commercialization with more realistic commercialization plans with a higher likelihood of success.