I'm fascinated that integrity issues at the highest levels of government are cool since everyone makes mistakes. If you lie to your boss and it embarrasses him in front of others, expect to get shown the door. It doesn't matter if you're big time gov't dude or the guy who cleans the shitters at the adult bookstore. Lies + supervisor embarrassment = unemployment is an unavoidable equation in the real world.
Actually, the FBI does know Flynn attempted to subvert his country's foreign policy and apparently lied about it. But hell, I read the NYT online so what do I know?Originally Posted by walker2713
"Swing your leaders wide old man!"
I find it more than a little bothersome that intelligence agencies are leaking details of wiretapping for political reasons. Now, the timing of Obama's expansion of wiretapping powers right before he left office makes sense.
https://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...powers/513041/
Last edited by LittleLebowski; 02-15-2017 at 09:54 AM.
#RESIST
Left wing journalist (who actually is a journalist and reports on both on the left and the right) Glenn Greenwald breaks it down well here:
The Leakers Who Exposed Gen. Flynn’s Lie Committed Serious — and Wholly Justified — Felonies
In the spectrum of crimes involving the leaking of classified information, publicly revealing the contents of SIGINT — signals intelligence — is one of the most serious felonies. Journalists (and all other nongovernmental citizens) can be prosecuted under federal law for disclosing classified information only under the narrowest circumstances; reflecting how serious SIGINT is considered to be, one of those circumstances includes leaking the contents of intercepted communications, as defined this way by 18 § 798 of the U.S. Code:
Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates … or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes … any classified information … obtained by the processes of communication intelligence from the communications of any foreign government … shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
#RESIST
It’s hard to put into words how strange it is to watch the very same people — from both parties, across the ideological spectrum — who called for the heads of Edward Snowden, Chelsea Manning, Tom Drake, and so many other Obama-era leakers today heap praise on those who leaked the highly sensitive, classified SIGINT information that brought down Gen. Flynn.
#RESIST
I'm bothered as well...but no less by what has been revealed. There is no happy ending here.
There's nothing civil about this war.
True, but our intelligence agencies should be above this.
#RESIST
We are in accord, LL. I took my TS clearance seriously during the many years I held it and never once considered disseminating outside of proper channels or leaving a file on my desk for someone to peruse while I took a leak. I am appalled at how little an oath seems to mean anymore.
At the same time, I am appalled at some of the conduct that has been revealed by these acts.
It's a tough one to sort out. Putting politics aside...when does one's sense of moral and ethical propriety, as well as concern for national security override one's oath? I don't know that there's a pat answer but I'm sure I can think of instances where it would be germane.
For example...let's say I was a minion within the Third Reich prior to and during WWII and had access to classified data and had been afforded the level of clearance necessary to be privy to some of the state's most nefarious programs.
Would the nobler thing be to keep the secret of the concentration camps and the systematic genocide against a number of groups...or would revealing this evil to my countrymen and the world be the nobler course of action? There is a point at which "I was just following orders" doesn't make one a stand-up guy.
There's nothing civil about this war.
This is fairly old debate. One of the first organized takes on it were Kohlberg's stages of moral development.
Basically:
1. Rewards and punishment
2. Societal Conventions and Legal Rules
3. Tenets of your own conscience
You were supposed to get to stage 3. Not too many do.
As in all things, there are other viewpoints.
Fishing, VDM was ironically quoting former Secretary Clinton.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...nce-does-it-m/
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