Please refresh my memory, is there a formula for normal handgun service calibers, that aproximates the penetration in water to the FBI calibrated gel?
Please refresh my memory, is there a formula for normal handgun service calibers, that aproximates the penetration in water to the FBI calibrated gel?
AFAIK, water is a poor substitute to ballistic gelatin, since at handgun bullet impact velocities it is so much "harder", forcing bullets to expand more than they would in gel. So I'm not sure how useful a comparison between water and gelatin is in the first place?
Water generally reveals the maximum upset which can occur to a projectile in soft tissue--the actual expansion in living tissue will be somewhat less. Water testing also can be used to get a rough estimate of bullet penetration depth in soft tissue--bullets penetrate approximately 1.6 to 2 times as much in water as in soft tissue.
Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie
Thanks!!
I get identical penetration with 12ga 1oz Remington Slugger @ 1560fps as I do with 75gr GDSP from a 16" carbine in milk jugs full of water.Originally Posted by DocGKR
Does this mean that +-2-3", they should also penetrate the same in gel/tissue, or can you not intelligently make that deduction for some reason?
In soft tissue, those should penetrate similarly.
Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie
A thread nine years ago on another board found:
"For individual use there are several workable alternatives which can supply results that are close enough for non-critical studies. The first is to use a row of common cardboard 1/2 gallon milk containers which are surprising uniform. Filled with water and placed in snug contact with each other, each carton penetrated is the equivalent of about 2.2" to 2.6" of ballistic gelatin when expanding bullets are used. (Bullet penetration in water is 1.8 times that of ballistic gelatin and in milk cartons somewhere generally around 1.5). The results agree fairly closely over the velocity range of about 700 to 3000 f/s.
A second method is the "Fackler box" which is simply a wooden frame designed to hold plastic bags full of water. The common "ZipLoc bags work well in this application. Because of the lack of tough cardboard between the bags one can use the 1.8 factor."
Stiff plastic gallon jugs might not respond the same way as a cardboard carton or a thin baggie.
Code Name: JET STREAM
I tested a Brenneke Classic Magnum this morning also in water jugs. It penetrated very similar to the Remington Slugger, barely making it out of the 5th jug and laying on the ground before the 6th. This is similar to what I expected, given their similar frontal areas when expanded, and weight/kinetic energy levels.
For self defense I believe in buckshot--but either of those sound like they'd work nicely too.
Water generally reveals the maximum upset which can occur to a projectile in soft tissue--the actual expansion in living tissue will be somewhat less. Water testing also can be used to get a rough estimate of bullet penetration depth in soft tissue--bullets penetrate approximately 1.6 to 2 times as much in water as in soft tissue.
Considering the source, I am certain the above is true. Here is what I need help with, though. It seems as if upset and penetration should vary inversely. The more the bullet expands, the greater its frontal area, therefore the greater the drag, therefore reduced penetration. However this medium provides both more expansion and more penetration. How can this happen?
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