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Thread: Gun position while running?

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    To devil's advocate and expand on understanding its lack of utility :

    1. Is that because there is very little utility in fast running with a drawn pistol anyway? Is that the key?
    I think there are some circumstances where fast running with a drawn pistol is required.

    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    2. If there is a real world application for fast running with a drawn pistol to an engagement, it doesn't obscure vision in actual use in my range experience*** and it is fast and efficient to return to shooting so where does it fall apart?
    If I understand what you are asking correctly, it is an issue of quality/speed of movement. The objective of moving is to get where you are going.

    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    *** - the position I've seen from gamers and experimented with has the gunhand bladed not quite fully palms down, SHO and at about lower jaw height with the elbow bent about 90 degrees, muzzle downrange. So its fast back out to freestyle much like the modern reload from the "work space".
    If I asked you to do a 40-yard sprint with your pistol, is that how you would do it? Probably not.
    C Class shooter.

  2. #12
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    No I reckon I'd run like PatMac style.
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  3. #13
    Site Supporter PNWTO's Avatar
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    I like the Pat Mac method but currently, when I run in training, I find myself switching between two of Defoor's techniques:

    1. High, w/magwell pointed forward, or towards target, and away from head.

    2. Strong hand brings the gun up tight against the pectoral.
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  4. #14
    Site Supporter Clobbersaurus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    I think it works for gun games. I don't think it's the proper technique for other situations.

    For gun games, you KNOW you're moving to another shooting position to shoot paper targets. Nobody is going to be there to shoot back at you. For a different situation like running down a long hallway to find and neutralize an active shooter I think it's the wrong technique. Having that gun right up in front of your face minimizes what you can actually see should someone come out of a doorway suddenly.

    The difference between this:
    Attachment 13801

    And this:
    Attachment 13802
    Thanks for all the discussion in this thread, good stuff.

    Lon, the difference between your photos, and I thank you for posting them, is that with both eyes open you get much less obstructed vision with the gun out in front.

    The way I have been doing it is keeping the gun canted at about 20 deg just below my right eye with the rear of the slide about two inches in front of my face. For me the gun just becomes a bit of a blur. If I close my left eye, the gun obstructs my vision. Open both and it is not nearly as much of a problem.

    Obviously I'm coming at this from an IPSC mindset. Running with gun in hand is usually short sprints between 3 and 15 yards, so not long periods of time at all. By doing this I'm probably only looking to shave a few .10ths (maybe) off my time. Added up over the course of a few sprints in a stage and it tends to matter enough for me to want to explore it as a way to shave some time.
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  5. #15
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    Very worthwhile discussion to me. Thank you.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  6. #16
    Site Supporter Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    Considering that the thread is about actually running which one would probably not be doing in a CQB scenario. More like "get out of this parking lot" kind of thing.
    If I were running from an active shooter, I'd keep my pistol holstered so I don't get a taste of blue on blue. If I were running to cover in a fight I'd Pat Mac it. If there's a three man ambush ahead (as in USPSA stages), I wouldn't be running toward it at all.
    "Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hambo View Post
    If I were running from an active shooter, I'd keep my pistol holstered so I don't get a taste of blue on blue. If I were running to cover in a fight I'd Pat Mac it. If there's a three man ambush ahead (as in USPSA stages), I wouldn't be running toward it at all.
    Very nice! I was thinking of say trying to haul ass out of a riot where folks were getting mobbed and stomped. I think your formula is quite good
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  8. #18
    +1 for reholster after the threat or on the egress.

    Holsters serve many functions, reholstering and unassing the situation while not getting shot is just as important as concealment and capability.
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  9. #19
    I know I often give long replies that are usually the result of putting huge amounts of thought, trial and error into techniques. So it may come as a surprise when I say that I find it curious that there seems to be a lot of thought process involved for this one.

    I don't shoot competition but since this is in the competition / IPSC / USPSA forum I will answer it from that standpoint of shooting stages of fire. Primary hand on the pistol and weapon stays about top of the shoulder height with an inward cant anywhere from 45 to full gangsta. I pump with both hands but primary hand has less movement and generally pumps front to rear, so muzzle stays forward. I guess maybe similar to how Mr. White is running with the weapon, but I have way more cant as it feels natural and easier to use what I can of the primary hand to generate momentum via a small pump of the arm. Quick bursts, covering short distances and my time onto target is much quicker with much better hits with this technique.

    Is it just for games? Absolutely not. Would I use it all the time? No, but the situation would dictate any number of variances to different skills. If the gun was up high when I am moving with muzzle forward, I guess there is probably a pretty darn good reason for the muzzle to be in that direction, but I also think, like any other movement technique you depress the muzzle as necessary. If I have to travel longer distances, even plastic pistol gets heavy up high and I would probably have a one handed depressed muzzle down run around waist level.

    I try not to limit myself. Hell we've been running around with things in our hands since we were kids. Just be aware of the muzzle and your trigger finger. I guess just use what works. The more you know and the more you are proficient with various skills the more options you have to suit whatever situation that you may find yourself in.

  10. #20
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    Depends on why I'm running.

    If I'm running into an area where there are things that need to be shot, I'm doing it like Anderson says.
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