Video Review Thread

[Mr_White]

Der. Point two, which is normal.

That's about what my ear thought. So, for you, it is probably all about the draw.

And if you do revisit the 7 yard Bill to the B8 with an eye toward guaranteeing hits to the black, I'd love to hear about how it goes!

[Mr_White]

My responses are bolded. Thank you so much for your input and taking the time to help me! I have some really good things I can work on!!

You are welcome!

Here are my split times for the bill drills:1.85/.39/.33/.31/..42/.44 = 3.71 -1 Body -.25 for concealment + .25 for a C= 3.71
2.02/ .42/.36/.37/ .33/.29= 3.79 -0 hits -.25 for concealment= 3.54

Those times are really slow to first draw. I know I can do better. I'm still learning to be more comfortable in live fire. That was probably the 5th Bill Drill I have shot in my life. I followed up with a few more (that I didn't video) and was able to get as low as 2.74 with all A's. I wish I had recorded my splits for that one. When I go to live fire, it's difficult for me to transition to "acceptable sight picture" I always want a perfect sight picture.

Do what you can do safely - that's the number one priority. With lots of work, you can probably cut that 1.85 first shot time by approximately 40 or 50% or maybe even more. A good place to start that speed work is in dry practice. If you are going to make any catastrophic errors while trying to work speed, it's better done there than in live fire. Whatever speed progress you make in dry practice, you might want to tone it down a bit as you ease your way toward a similar pace in live fire. Be safe. But you've got lots of headroom on that draw. That you were able to get a 6A Bill Drill down by about a second in one session means you can probably be a lot more aggressive in both the draw and the shots than you were in the 3.71 Bill Drill, and I totally understand if you need more live fire time to get comfortable with it. Just recognize the potential is there and your existing skill set can at least touch that level as it stands today. And always work with your on-demand level enough that you don't divorce yourself from it - you obviously can shoot accurately under time pressure and you always need to be able to summon that when it's a test, whatever form that takes, instead of practice time.

Ya I definitely need to work on this and learning what an acceptable sight picture is for the given distance.

Have you done that drill with the deliberately misaligned sights + good trigger press at various distances to (intellectually at least) see what different sight pictures translate into in terms of accuracy? That's a good one to start with.

I definitely need to improve on this. Pinning the trigger is my nemesis.

I was originally taught pinning the trigger, and I thought I did that for a long time, but it unconsciously went away when I tried to shoot the gun faster. I caught myself a few times with my finger on the trigger (mid-string) well forward of the reset point I thought I was limiting myself to. And then I quit concerning myself with only letting the trigger forward to the reset point and just let things happen. Simply attempting to shoot faster without a lot of conscious thought about the trigger finger might help you get out of pinning the trigger too long.

I like my dry practice drill (of course!) that works on paying attention to the sight picture as the front sight is coming back from simulated recoil to the target spot, and working the trigger in accordance with that sight picture: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....-Single-Target

Working the trigger may be a significant (maybe the biggest?) limiting factor even at higher speeds (~.2ish splits.) When I look at this high speed video of me shooting a Bill Drill from a while back (Bill Drill starts at 0:33), it looks like the gun has cycled and is back on target - still bouncing a bit though - just as, or maybe a little before, I have reset the trigger, and definitely before I am pulling the trigger again.

[Mr_White]

BTW, I hope no one thinks I intended this thread to be a place where I would be the one doing review and giving advice. I certainly intend to do that as time allows, and I am definitely trying to help give it a good start, but I absolutely meant for this thread to be for anyone and everyone to both post their own videos and comment on others'.

[Mr_White]

Did some work on shooting into and out of position.

This wasn't on-demand shooting, it was pushing hard enough (especially with the transitions, even though that wasn't the fundamental point of these drills) to make errors and work on correcting them.

This isolated shooting into position drill is one I learned from Ben Stoeger and I think it's excellent. Get the gun up and aiming before you really even start decelerating - I feel like I mount the gun just a tad late throughout these videos. Be actively aiming while you are using your legs to decelerate, and working the trigger in accordance with that aim. The feet will be finalizing their position as (at least) the first couple of shots are fired.



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This isolated shooting out of position drill is also one I learned from Ben Stoeger and I think it's excellent. Lean/shift weight more and more as the shots progress so that the last couple are fired just as you are breaking into movement and then you can really blast off.



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Teh Cheeseburger (In N Out) drill is my own variation of the previous two, where I try to combine shooting in and out in the same drill. In that one I shot for the lower A on the first target, the head on the second target (since it goes along with the relative stillness of movement at that point), and the lower A on the third target.



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Anyone have any comments/advice? Les, please come to this thread and use so many words!

[Doc_Glock]

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....-Single-Target

Love this drill!

[karmapolice]

Quick post as I'm out and about.

[Mr_White]

Quick post as I'm out and about.

You and I talked about this pretty in-depth off line, but to summarize in response to your forum post:

Maybe a little more explosive movement of the hands - fluidity of motion where it's needed, rigidity of stillness where that is needed

Stop the gun smoothly but faster

Play with certainty of ht and speed in different degrees of stopping the gun vs. firing with it still moving a little more

You are ducking your head - I don't think this is a serious problem as long as your head is facing forward and you are looking out the front of your eyes

You are ducking your head as the gun is coming to meet your eye-target line - the issue is that you are moving two things at the same time, trying to get them to meet - it may be better to get the head ducking done right away when you move your hands so that the head is done moving before the gun is coming to the eye-target line, then you just have one thing moving trying to meet a still thing, instead of two things in motion trying to meet

Especially when it comes to clearing the shirt and getting master grip on the gun, I would balance the important principle of economy of motion against maybe a slightly bigger motion to leave some margin of error to get the shirt fully cleared and get master grip without crashing your fingers into the beltline. Strict economy of motion has to be tempered at times to allow for those margins, especially those margins when motions shrink due to tension due to pressure. Letting the trigger out further than reset, to avoid trigger freeze when tense/pressured is another example, and I think this part of the draw is similar.

[hiro]

Maybe I don't need to cross post this but to better bring it to a wider audience, why not?

[Mr_White]

Maybe I don't need to cross post this but to better bring it to a wider audience, why not?

OK, this was the second run, I used the first to get my phone set up so I can't call this "shot" cold but apart from snipping the first and last few seconds, it's unedited.

I can see that I have the muzzle up during the last part of my presentation and it should be flat. The par was set to 1.5 seconds.
And yes, we need to decorate...

Move your hands faster throughout, especially at the beginning.

You have a little tiny bit of pushing down on the gun while it's in the holster - that eats just a bit of time.

Between position 3 and 3.5: I agree that a flatter muzzle would be preferable, but the degree of muzzle tilt you have at that point is not very great. Try to flatten it, but what you have going on isn't a big deal IMHO, as long as your trigger manipulation goes along with it properly.

Between position 3.5 and 4: Yep, need the muzzle a little flatter during that time. That's when there is more danger you are going to complete the trigger press and fire a significantly-too-high shot. The gun looks like is only getting level as it's stopping at the end - try to level it out a little sooner.

^^^Those observations were mainly from watching one particular rep several times. The issues I mention are less evident on some of your other reps.

I think you should holster more slowly and less forcefully. If you have a bit of a separate habit in high-rep dry practice, I get that, though that can carry the risk of that bleeding over to live fire. But, if that is the way you holster all the time, I would definitely recommend slowing and lightening the insertion of the gun into the holster.

Your overall structure looks good, there are just a few things to tighten up, and then you have to maintain those good habits and structures while you drive the whole thing faster...

[hiro]

Thank you.

Can you point me to a diagram or written description of the different points in the draw stroke please?