Glock Ejection Without Magazine

[JAD]

My new G17gen4 is consistently sending brass from weak 115s 3-4' to 4:30 in a high arc, except the last round which dribbles to 6. Should I be concerned?

This is after ~1000 rounds. Something that concerned me about the gen3/gen4 drama was that several people said it didn't show up until 3-4K.

[Ed L]

It is difficult to envision a situation where I would need to fire a round in the gun without a magazine, and need the round extracted properly.

It is a litmus text of extraction. If your gun can do this it is good to go as far as extraction and ejection. I believe Ken Hackathorn originally used it with 1911s. I spoke to him about it and he modestly said that while he is the first person who popularized it, he could not imagine that someone was not doing it before he did.

Interestingly, I was at the range a few years ago with Wayne and we were firing a high end 1911 that was functioning 100% and had over 400 rounds through it. Then with the last round of a magazine it dragged the empty case into the feedlips of the magazine. Wayne removed the magazine and did the ejection test by chambering a round, removing the magazine, and then firing a round. He did this multiple times and low and behold we had rounds that were dropping down the magazine well and even stovepiping.

[JHC]

My new G17gen4 is consistently sending brass from weak 115s 3-4' to 4:30 in a high arc, except the last round which dribbles to 6. Should I be concerned?

This is after ~1000 rounds. Something that concerned me about the gen3/gen4 drama was that several people said it didn't show up until 3-4K.

I would not concern me. I sometimes see that last round go out weaker that those that have a round below in the mag following it. I've seen many references that this somewhat inherent.

[JCS]

Well this is concerning to me. I haven't had a single brass to the face across three guns but the only one I have extensive time on is my 19. Extensive for me =~5,000 rounds so I realize that it's still a baby.

But mine will not eject the round properly probably 75% of the time without a magazine. I've never worried about it because it doesn't cause issues with a magazine.

Should I upgrade the extractor? Maybe I missed it but how can I tell if I have the latest oem extractor?


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[JHC]

Well this is concerning to me. I haven't had a single brass to the face across three guns but the only one I have extensive time on is my 19. Extensive for me =~5,000 rounds so I realize that it's still a baby.

But mine will not eject the round properly probably 75% of the time without a magazine. I've never worried about it because it doesn't cause issues with a magazine.

Should I upgrade the extractor? Maybe I missed it but how can I tell if I have the latest oem extractor?


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Do you suppose all the umpteen thousand SOCOM Glocks pass this 1911 test?

[Doc_Glock]

Well this is concerning to me. I haven't had a single brass to the face across three guns but the only one I have extensive time on is my 19. Extensive for me =~5,000 rounds so I realize that it's still a baby.

But mine will not eject the round properly probably 75% of the time without a magazine. I've never worried about it because it doesn't cause issues with a magazine.

Should I upgrade the extractor? Maybe I missed it but how can I tell if I have the latest oem extractor?


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I am not an expert, but 5k rounds, I would not be concerned at all. When would you ever use the gun without the magazine inserted? And even if that as the case, when would you expect more than one shot without the magazine? Who cares what happens after the shot?

Anyway I am going to keep shooting mine and see what happens. Zero problems with mag in place since extractor upgrade.

[MSparks909]

Well this is concerning to me. I haven't had a single brass to the face across three guns but the only one I have extensive time on is my 19. Extensive for me =~5,000 rounds so I realize that it's still a baby.

But mine will not eject the round properly probably 75% of the time without a magazine. I've never worried about it because it doesn't cause issues with a magazine.

Should I upgrade the extractor? Maybe I missed it but how can I tell if I have the latest oem extractor?


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Testing ejection without a magazine is a 1911 specific test (10-8 Extractor Test). Glock extractors don't support the case the same way 1911 extractors do. It's apples to oranges. As someone said earlier in this thread, Glocks rely on vertical tension from the magazine spring/follower to aid in "proper" extraction. I say "proper" because my sample of 4 G4 9mms all required a White Sound HRED + Apex extractor to function properly. Gotta love "perfection"

[Trajan]

If you're firing a gun without a magazine in it, does it really matter if it stove pipes? You for whatever reason ejected your mag and presumably have no more ammo.

Mine goes through the magwell the few times I tried it.

And now worry warts are getting worried.

[JCS]

My concern was from this post.

I've posted on this before, taught on this before and spent time thinking about it for years. It IS important that a service pistol pass this test and Glocks are the number one "failers" of it. It is why ejection with a Glock is often to all points of the compass and it tells you that your ejector on the typical stock Glock is really the top round in the magazine, not the actual ejector. The extractor is failing to maintain tension on the case during the extraction step and is failing to keep the fired case against the breech face so that the ejector can pinion it out the ejection port. If it's failing in its tension responsibilities there, then it's doing the same with those selfsame duties when feeding and chambering a round from the magazine.

Running that isolation test that Hilton Yam published and that Ken Hackathorn brought forth is a huge indicator of design, manufacture and consistency of a pistol. Just because your gun "works ok" doesn't mean crap, it just means you think it's ok. I've yet to see any 3rd Gen 9mm pass it without modification and the mix on Gen 4 guns is about 50/50 in my checking.

I have fixed many guns for folks that realize the ramifications of this failure and here's the recipe: Apex Extractor, their extractor depressor spring, the non-LCI bearing and a 30274 4th Gen ejector. If the gun can be fixed, this does it. If that doesn't work and the gun is for serious use (as in you stake your life or loved ones lives), the gun should go away. My experience with my carry 3rd Gen G19s is that they now eject in patterns outside the gun like my HKs (which by the way, set a standard of excellence on function testing).

You don't have to agree and you may get away with a lot, but Glock knows their guns have significant deficiencies and don't give a shit because they sell all they make. It's your life to risk. If a 3rd Gen Glock was an airplane, I sure as hell wouldn't fly on it as it comes from the box. I have too much time and have watched too many rounds (over 2 million) go downrange from them to know.

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[JHC]

Indeed he believes that fervently. It's come up before in similar threads. There is just a pretty big universe of successful Glock end users that use it all the worst case scenarios and . . . it doesn't appear to be that big a deal. I mean its not like small amounts of silt or grit will keep your 19 from going into battery when you need to fire. I kid I kid.