Great advice man thank you. Lately I've been running a lot of 2 RL 1, 1 RL 2 switching between high and low probability targets as well as bill, casino, F2S, 4B2H, 2TH, press 6 and a few others. I think maybe I do need to switch some things up but I've stopped going to the outdoor range where I had more flexibility. Panteo P. owner is a sack of shit but that's another story entirely.
SLG what are you running as a target for your cold work, what is your preferred drill to run cold?
To anyone willing to answer what do you all prefer? A strong side shot when filming or frontal? What would be the most useful angle when filming for diagnosing draw errors?
Are we now talking about a cold and concealed 1.50 to a 3x5 @ 7 yards? If so that is tough one to achieve and anyone doing that with consistency is doing something right. At that level of shooting skill and speed shaving .2 seconds is a lot harder of a benchmark to achieve than cutting .2 seconds off of a 2.5 to 3.0 second draw and hit.
Hell even warmed up a 1.50 is not easy for me to do with consistency that I would find acceptable. When I am trying to run 100% hits on a FAST drill I am NOT @ 1.50 to the first shot and probably a 2.1 to 2.2 to the first 2 shots. Now I very much understand that there are faster guys than me on this forum but 1.50 cold, or warmed, up is not easy. Put that on a 6" or 8" circle and OK, but a 3x5 consistently is a tough one, at least for myself.
eta - I will try to click off a cold and some other times tomorrow if I can.
Last edited by Surf; 01-24-2017 at 02:00 PM.
I like 7 yards a lot. Outer edge of "likely" self-defense distance, challenging enough as long as you push or use smaller targets, very easy to compare numbers since it's such a commonly-used distance. Longer distances are where the skill action is later on, but I've always liked 7.
Mike, I do hope my comments help but they are just comments and you have to find your way. As long as you keep trying and paying attention, you will. And I definitely agree that maybe you shouldn't be frustrated. In the big picture, the level of skill you already have is pretty remarkable. For many years I had never even heard of someone able to draw and hit a 3x5 at 7 yards in under 1.5 seconds. And I also understand the frustration, because it's never really good enough, is it? As soon as you get to one second, you'd only want sub-second. Or at least that's how it works for me.
I remember that discussion between you, me, and TLG where you guys were inquiring about my times and hit percentages, on demand level, etc. and I really want to find it but I keep coming up empty. If anyone else knows where it is, I'll be eternally grateful if you can refer me back to it.
In those days I was doing a ton of drawing and shooting 3x5s and I knew exactly where I was at. So SLG, please take what follows as coming from memory and possibly old info or otherwise off a little. Assuming I fully return to the land of the living tomorrow I'll try this if I have time and see what happens at present.
For a one-shot draw to a 3x5 at 7 yards, with a closed-front shirt, AIWB, and a hands-down start:
Cold and being pretty careful to hit (I think I'd be 9 out of 10 or so), 1.10 to 1.30. But that's in a practice environment. In a more stressful circumstance like a demo or match, I'd expect to lose another tenth or two to the stress.
Now, warmed up and practicing, doing a bunch of reps at it, I am (was?) .95 to 1.10 with mostly hits.
I think this task has been the subject of some cold, one shot drills of the week. I'm going to look for those since I couldn't find the other discussion...
Technical excellence supports tactical preparedness
Lord of the Food Court
http://www.gabewhitetraining.com
I wish it wasn't snowy and crappy out, I want to try this now.
Semper Gumby, Always Flexible
What you do right before you know you're going to be in a use of force incident, often determines the outcome of that use of force.
Can you expand a bit on how long it took you to break past that, what that process looked like, what you did to get there, etc.?
I ask because I was under the impression you have been well under 1.5 to a 8" @ 7 yds for a very very long time, and I remember us discussing draw time once where it sounded like you broke to the ~1.1 territory in a fell swoop even before you moved to AIWB.
Todd introduced me to the concept of running a par time drill for our first drill of the day. We used to do it on turning targets, but I mostly use a timer these days. Turning targets are better...
So, for me, I use a 2 sec par time and I try to hit an 8" paper plate as many times as possible before the second beep. I as long as your last shot was within .25 of the par, I count it. That's because you have to hear the beep to know to stop shooting. With a turning target, either you hit it or you didn't, and its all visual based stuff, which is mo better imo.
The key is not how many times you can hit it once you warm up, but rather that your cold hits get as close to your warm hits as possible. So as an example, I might do this drill for 2 or three magazines. My very first run is the only cold one, and lets say hit it 5 times. By the second or third mag, I might be hitting it 8 times. If I never get better than 8 times in 2 secs, I'm fine with that, but I want my cold run to get to 6 instead of 5. 7 would be better, and I have seen that before, but not very often. I've never seen someone shoot 8 cold, and then also shoot 8 warm. I think everyone will be better warm...
Hope that makes sense.
I think a side shot from your holster side is the best way to view video, but more angles is better.
Last edited by SLG; 01-24-2017 at 04:04 PM.
Mr_White,
Those times are pretty awesome! Your 3x5 times are my 8" circle times. :-(
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Last edited by GRV; 01-24-2017 at 05:20 PM.