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Thread: Equip. for record training sessions.

  1. #21
    Member Peally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scw2 View Post
    Do you guys tend to default the distance to 7 yards for testing cold ability?
    7 and 10 are my go-to defaults for everything. I'm guessing everyone is referring to 7 yards considering the talk about FAST drill skills.
    Semper Gumby, Always Flexible

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by JustOneGun View Post
    I might be saying the same as SLG? If he's saying video alone won't get you down .2 seconds then I might agree. So, I'd do all of the above and then some. Heck just a friend running the video off a smart phone from the side. That's free. Not only is video the natural next step in order to see your inefficiencies but don't discount the value of performing in front of a friend or spouse. It's a good pressure to make you perform better. One of the big things to come from video is that many people have a great draw and then just stare at the pistol for a long time before pressing. They need to see faster and have faith in what they are seeing.

    To expand on your question and give unsolicited advice (LOL): If you're not already doing this, dryfire and live fire, Another way to shave time off is to mix up your training. One cold draw timed. Then a reload timed. Then a one handed draw timed. Then keep practicing, never doing the same thing twice in a row. What you might find is your times go UP a bit when you do this in a training session. That is a good thing in the short term. Just don't freak out about them going up. But what it does is help at the beginning of the next training session. Your cold draw should go down at the beginning of the next session. This helps some people get faster. Strange for me but what it really did was compress the range of time from my fastest to my slowest. i.e. my screw ups happened less often and when they did happen they were not as bad.

    Dryfire, Have you tried the old break down the movement into step and practice them in isolation at blazing fast speed? Practice step one of the draw ending with a perfect grip. Moving cover garmet and driving that hand to the pistol faster than you ever have. Then start with the #2 of the draw and just do that at blazing fast speed for your next rep. This part can help a person if they have a problem with timing like a lazy support hand while building the grip. It's like video except instead of seeing it happen you feel it happen because you are over driving the pistol through a short isolated action.

    That last one is great to isolate the reload. What I found is stopping at my reference point just before inserting the mag into the mag well helped to consistently find visually and physically that reference point. Doing all that stuff might help and certainly can get you down .2. Heck, you might find you blast through to sub 1 second on the draw. It just takes time.
    Great advice man thank you. Lately I've been running a lot of 2 RL 1, 1 RL 2 switching between high and low probability targets as well as bill, casino, F2S, 4B2H, 2TH, press 6 and a few others. I think maybe I do need to switch some things up but I've stopped going to the outdoor range where I had more flexibility. Panteo P. owner is a sack of shit but that's another story entirely.


    Quote Originally Posted by SLG View Post
    Mr_White,

    Since this came up, I'm curious what your times to a 3X5 are. I remember discussing this a while ago, but I don't remember what they were. I don't know what my cold time to a 3x5 is, as I haven't done much of that and don't track it normally. When I'm cruising along, I might be in the 1.35 neighborhood, but I can't guarantee that.

    Personally, I believe in building my cold time to a slightly bigger target, but not larger than 8". To that end, I have been doing basically the same drill every time I step on the range, for over 15 years now. My data on that is pretty solid, but I really don't measure other skills for cold ability with any kind of regularity or consistency.
    SLG what are you running as a target for your cold work, what is your preferred drill to run cold?


    To anyone willing to answer what do you all prefer? A strong side shot when filming or frontal? What would be the most useful angle when filming for diagnosing draw errors?

  3. #23
    Are we now talking about a cold and concealed 1.50 to a 3x5 @ 7 yards? If so that is tough one to achieve and anyone doing that with consistency is doing something right. At that level of shooting skill and speed shaving .2 seconds is a lot harder of a benchmark to achieve than cutting .2 seconds off of a 2.5 to 3.0 second draw and hit.

    Hell even warmed up a 1.50 is not easy for me to do with consistency that I would find acceptable. When I am trying to run 100% hits on a FAST drill I am NOT @ 1.50 to the first shot and probably a 2.1 to 2.2 to the first 2 shots. Now I very much understand that there are faster guys than me on this forum but 1.50 cold, or warmed, up is not easy. Put that on a 6" or 8" circle and OK, but a 3x5 consistently is a tough one, at least for myself.

    eta - I will try to click off a cold and some other times tomorrow if I can.
    Last edited by Surf; 01-24-2017 at 02:00 PM.

  4. #24
    Leopard Printer Mr_White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scw2 View Post
    Do you guys tend to default the distance to 7 yards for testing cold ability?
    I like 7 yards a lot. Outer edge of "likely" self-defense distance, challenging enough as long as you push or use smaller targets, very easy to compare numbers since it's such a commonly-used distance. Longer distances are where the skill action is later on, but I've always liked 7.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike C View Post
    Posting from the road so Ill try to post without hacking things up. Mr. White, you may have just made things click. Maybe my press out is where my variances are coming into play. Sometimes I am getting a shot off as soon as I am seeing my sights through my press out, other times I feel like I am not seeing my sights fast enough so I wait longer for the sights to settle and my times are slower as a result.

    I think I'm getting what you're saying and will try to remember all this and track when I'm seeing my sights earlier and see if I'm breaking the shot earlier in the press out. Maybe I shouldn't be so frustrated.

    Thank you.
    Mike, I do hope my comments help but they are just comments and you have to find your way. As long as you keep trying and paying attention, you will. And I definitely agree that maybe you shouldn't be frustrated. In the big picture, the level of skill you already have is pretty remarkable. For many years I had never even heard of someone able to draw and hit a 3x5 at 7 yards in under 1.5 seconds. And I also understand the frustration, because it's never really good enough, is it? As soon as you get to one second, you'd only want sub-second. Or at least that's how it works for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by SLG View Post
    Mr_White,

    Since this came up, I'm curious what your times to a 3X5 are. I remember discussing this a while ago, but I don't remember what they were. I don't know what my cold time to a 3x5 is, as I haven't done much of that and don't track it normally. When I'm cruising along, I might be in the 1.35 neighborhood, but I can't guarantee that.

    Personally, I believe in building my cold time to a slightly bigger target, but not larger than 8". To that end, I have been doing basically the same drill every time I step on the range, for over 15 years now. My data on that is pretty solid, but I really don't measure other skills for cold ability with any kind of regularity or consistency.
    I remember that discussion between you, me, and TLG where you guys were inquiring about my times and hit percentages, on demand level, etc. and I really want to find it but I keep coming up empty. If anyone else knows where it is, I'll be eternally grateful if you can refer me back to it.

    In those days I was doing a ton of drawing and shooting 3x5s and I knew exactly where I was at. So SLG, please take what follows as coming from memory and possibly old info or otherwise off a little. Assuming I fully return to the land of the living tomorrow I'll try this if I have time and see what happens at present.

    For a one-shot draw to a 3x5 at 7 yards, with a closed-front shirt, AIWB, and a hands-down start:

    Cold and being pretty careful to hit (I think I'd be 9 out of 10 or so), 1.10 to 1.30. But that's in a practice environment. In a more stressful circumstance like a demo or match, I'd expect to lose another tenth or two to the stress.

    Now, warmed up and practicing, doing a bunch of reps at it, I am (was?) .95 to 1.10 with mostly hits.

    I think this task has been the subject of some cold, one shot drills of the week. I'm going to look for those since I couldn't find the other discussion...
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  5. #25
    Member Peally's Avatar
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    I wish it wasn't snowy and crappy out, I want to try this now.
    Semper Gumby, Always Flexible

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peally View Post
    I wish it wasn't snowy and crappy out, I want to try this now.


    Ha, I was thinking the same thing. Winter storm warning after winter storm warning this month. Weatherman says sunny for next 7 days. Woohoo.
    What you do right before you know you're going to be in a use of force incident, often determines the outcome of that use of force.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_White View Post
    Yeah, I'd agree. I remember struggling to get any consistency in hits to an 8" circle or similar under 1.5 seconds from concealment. Same time to a 3x5 is vastly tougher. Better time to a 3x5 if off the hook.
    Can you expand a bit on how long it took you to break past that, what that process looked like, what you did to get there, etc.?

    I ask because I was under the impression you have been well under 1.5 to a 8" @ 7 yds for a very very long time, and I remember us discussing draw time once where it sounded like you broke to the ~1.1 territory in a fell swoop even before you moved to AIWB.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike C View Post
    SLG what are you running as a target for your cold work, what is your preferred drill to run cold?


    To anyone willing to answer what do you all prefer? A strong side shot when filming or frontal? What would be the most useful angle when filming for diagnosing draw errors?
    Todd introduced me to the concept of running a par time drill for our first drill of the day. We used to do it on turning targets, but I mostly use a timer these days. Turning targets are better...

    So, for me, I use a 2 sec par time and I try to hit an 8" paper plate as many times as possible before the second beep. I as long as your last shot was within .25 of the par, I count it. That's because you have to hear the beep to know to stop shooting. With a turning target, either you hit it or you didn't, and its all visual based stuff, which is mo better imo.

    The key is not how many times you can hit it once you warm up, but rather that your cold hits get as close to your warm hits as possible. So as an example, I might do this drill for 2 or three magazines. My very first run is the only cold one, and lets say hit it 5 times. By the second or third mag, I might be hitting it 8 times. If I never get better than 8 times in 2 secs, I'm fine with that, but I want my cold run to get to 6 instead of 5. 7 would be better, and I have seen that before, but not very often. I've never seen someone shoot 8 cold, and then also shoot 8 warm. I think everyone will be better warm...

    Hope that makes sense.


    I think a side shot from your holster side is the best way to view video, but more angles is better.
    Last edited by SLG; 01-24-2017 at 04:04 PM.

  9. #29
    Mr_White,

    Those times are pretty awesome! Your 3x5 times are my 8" circle times. :-(

  10. #30
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    Last edited by GRV; 01-24-2017 at 05:20 PM.

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