Equip. for record training sessions.

[SLG]

Mike C,

Posting from my phone here so please forgive the brevity. 1.25-1.35 for draw and shot to a 3x5 at 7 yards is really outstanding to start with. There's going to be a couple tenths variation in there for anyone and I wouldn't look at that as undue inconsistency. For me the nuts and bolts difference between a 1.05 and 1.25 on this task is mostly in how much stopping the gun I do before firing. At 1.25 the gun is pretty stopped, at 1.05 I am firing when seeing the sights just getting into the target and the gun is stopping but not stopped.

I'm sure looking forward to meeting you in April!

Gabe

That's exactly what i was thinking. I would love to have a cold draw to a 3X5 in the 1.25 range!

That's not saying you can't improve that, I'm sure you can, it's just that you are probably not doing much wrong at this point.

[orionz06]

I'd go to WalMart, Target, or Best Buy and obtain the cheapest tripod that held my phone and allowed me to get the angles needed for the facilities I use.

[JustOneGun]

I might be saying the same as SLG? If he's saying video alone won't get you down .2 seconds then I might agree. So, I'd do all of the above and then some. Heck just a friend running the video off a smart phone from the side. That's free. Not only is video the natural next step in order to see your inefficiencies but don't discount the value of performing in front of a friend or spouse. It's a good pressure to make you perform better. One of the big things to come from video is that many people have a great draw and then just stare at the pistol for a long time before pressing. They need to see faster and have faith in what they are seeing.

To expand on your question and give unsolicited advice (LOL): If you're not already doing this, dryfire and live fire, Another way to shave time off is to mix up your training. One cold draw timed. Then a reload timed. Then a one handed draw timed. Then keep practicing, never doing the same thing twice in a row. What you might find is your times go UP a bit when you do this in a training session. That is a good thing in the short term. Just don't freak out about them going up. But what it does is help at the beginning of the next training session. Your cold draw should go down at the beginning of the next session. This helps some people get faster. Strange for me but what it really did was compress the range of time from my fastest to my slowest. i.e. my screw ups happened less often and when they did happen they were not as bad.

Dryfire, Have you tried the old break down the movement into step and practice them in isolation at blazing fast speed? Practice step one of the draw ending with a perfect grip. Moving cover garmet and driving that hand to the pistol faster than you ever have. Then start with the #2 of the draw and just do that at blazing fast speed for your next rep. This part can help a person if they have a problem with timing like a lazy support hand while building the grip. It's like video except instead of seeing it happen you feel it happen because you are over driving the pistol through a short isolated action.

That last one is great to isolate the reload. What I found is stopping at my reference point just before inserting the mag into the mag well helped to consistently find visually and physically that reference point. Doing all that stuff might help and certainly can get you down .2. Heck, you might find you blast through to sub 1 second on the draw. It just takes time.

[SLG]

I might be saying the same as SLG? If he's saying video alone won't get you down .2 seconds then I might agree.

I think video is an excellent way to diagnose what's going on. I was just saying that a cold draw with a hit on a 3X5 card in the 1.25-1.50 range is pretty high level stuff, and though I'm sure someone can do it faster, there probably isn't a lot of room for improvement there. My on demand 3x5 hits, like during a FAST drill, where only hits count, are right around 1.50. That's warmed up, repeatable performance. I have no doubt I can drop that time, and that others can do it faster, but to do that time or better cold, is very impressive to me.

My only point was that to be able to do that already, there can't be much wrong with your draw, so areas to improve may be hard to find on video. Then again, maybe not.

[Peally]

If you have a cheap laptop and a table you can record with that too. I prefer that for dry fire/indoors as it has way more storage and I can see myself in the screen if needed.

Cell phone/tripod is probably a better bet for outdoors though.

[Mr_White]

Yeah, I'd agree. I remember struggling to get any consistency in hits to an 8" circle or similar under 1.5 seconds from concealment. Same time to a 3x5 is vastly tougher. Better time to a 3x5 if off the hook.

[SLG]

Yeah, I'd agree. I remember struggling to get any consistency in hits to an 8" circle or similar under 1.5 seconds from concealment. Same time to a 3x5 is vastly tougher. Better time to a 3x5 if off the hook.

Mr_White,

Since this came up, I'm curious what your times to a 3X5 are. I remember discussing this a while ago, but I don't remember what they were. I don't know what my cold time to a 3x5 is, as I haven't done much of that and don't track it normally. When I'm cruising along, I might be in the 1.35 neighborhood, but I can't guarantee that.

Personally, I believe in building my cold time to a slightly bigger target, but not larger than 8". To that end, I have been doing basically the same drill every time I step on the range, for over 15 years now. My data on that is pretty solid, but I really don't measure other skills for cold ability with any kind of regularity or consistency.

[scw2]

Do you guys tend to default the distance to 7 yards for testing cold ability?

[Mike C]

Posting from the road so Ill try to post without hacking things up. Mr. White, you may have just made things click. Maybe my press out is where my variances are coming into play. Sometimes I am getting a shot off as soon as I am seeing my sights through my press out, other times I feel like I am not seeing my sights fast enough so I wait longer for the sights to settle and my times are slower as a result.

I think I'm getting what you're saying and will try to remember all this and track when I'm seeing my sights earlier and see if I'm breaking the shot earlier in the press out. Maybe I shouldn't be so frustrated.

Thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JustOneGun]

I think video is an excellent way to diagnose what's going on. I was just saying that a cold draw with a hit on a 3X5 card in the 1.25-2.50 range is pretty high level stuff, and though I'm sure someone can do it faster, there probably isn't a lot of room for improvement there. My on demand 3x5 hits, like during a FAST drill, where only hits count, are right around 1.50. That's warmed up, repeatable performance. I have no doubt I can drop that time, and that others can do it faster, but to do that time or better cold, is very impressive to me.

My only point was that to be able to do that already, there can't be much wrong with your draw, so areas to improve may be hard to find on video. Then again, maybe not.

I agree. I must have missed the 3x5 card mentioned.

Nevertheless I think discussing how to get even a .05 improvement is often the same training technique to gain .2 in some other aspect of shooting. That is true whether a competition or ccw angle is used. That is often true whether one shoots twice a week and 20,000 rounds a year or twice a month and 1,200 rounds a year. As an older retired guy (they took the keys for the ammo room away) I don't shoot enough to be high end anymore. It's just not realistic for me to think I will shoot as well as someone who shoots 20K dedicated rounds a year. But I and others should look to make small gains using a more efficient technique to make and keep those gains. I believe we can go a long way to shooting higher standards if we don't just give up because we don't shoot that 20K a year.

That's why I mentioned the idea of compressing the average. That was the first idea I got from TLG. For ccw or competition if I increase my speed by .05 but my low end or screw ups go from 1.5 to 1.35 then that is fantastic. Ultimately that idea is how to increase on demand performance. That is even more true if one is not shooting 20K a year because there is no room for inefficiency.