Repeal the National Firearms Act of 1934

[WobblyPossum]

This is tough for me. One one hand, I hate all the regulations on our second amendment rights. I trust most of my fellow citizens to be responsible with the same weapons our soldiers carry (with the exception of explosives). On the other hand, I agree with VoodooMan and LtDave that destructive devices and technicals in the hands of criminals could lead to awful things.

Yes, criminals can get automatic weapons now, but they aren't anywhere close in number to semiautomatic weapons. I believe that's got a lot to do with how difficult it is for the average citizen to acquire them. Importing crates of AK47s might be easy for the Sinaloa cartel but it's not easy for your average corner boy. What scares me about abolishing the NFA and associated regulations is that fully automatic guns would be so affordable there would be no reasons for criminals to get semiautos instead. Imagine if every time a banger sent his girlfriend to the gun store for him, she came out with a Mac 10 or an Uzi. If a heroin addict broke into a car with an unsecured truck gun in it and there was a 50% chance it was an automatic weapon. People would straw purchase 40mm HEDP grenades for their dealers in exchange for narcotics.

I'm not so much scared of facing the criminals armed in such a manner as I am of the thought of the collateral damage they would cause while committing crime. If every drive by was perpetrated using a belt fed machine gun, I think we'd see a lot more innocent bystanders hit.

I signed both petitions but I'm still apprehensive.


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[voodoo_man]

This is tough for me. One one hand, I hate all the regulations on our second amendment rights. I trust most of my fellow citizens to be responsible with the same weapons our soldiers carry (with the exception of explosives). On the other hand, I agree with VoodooMan and LtDave that destructive devices and technicals in the hands of criminals could lead to awful things.

Yes, criminals can get automatic weapons now, but they aren't anywhere close in number to semiautomatic weapons. I believe that's got a lot to do with how difficult it is for the average citizen to acquire them. Importing crates of AK47s might be easy for the Sinaloa cartel but it's not easy for your average corner boy. What scares me about abolishing the NFA and associated regulations is that fully automatic guns would be so affordable there would be no reasons for criminals to get semiautos instead. Imagine if every time a banger sent his girlfriend to the gun store for him, she came out with a Mac 10 or an Uzi. If a heroin addict broke into a car with an unsecured truck gun in it and there was a 50% chance it was an automatic weapon. People would straw purchase 40mm HEDP grenades for their dealers in exchange for narcotics.

I'm not so much scared of facing the criminals armed in such a manner as I am of the thought of the collateral damage they would cause while committing crime. If every drive by was perpetrated using a belt fed machine gun, I think we'd see a lot more innocent bystanders hit.

I signed both petitions but I'm still apprehensive.


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Just to clarify my position and statements.

I am completely for abolishing each and every regulation concerning the 2nd. There should protections in place for it as the 1st has and anything less should be regarded as infringement.

With that said, our fellow citizens are not the brightest bunch, and while I totally agree that people will buy auto guns over semis given the opportunity and similar cost basis, it is still our right as Americans to have these items and that right should not be infringed.

Unfortunately, my need for logical application of laws outweighs my need for having a 40mm with HE's as my trunk gun very quickly.

We see what happens in other countries where there are not just lax laws but mostly non-existent laws. The last thing we need, as I've stated, is some POS either terrorist or corner boy, setup something heavy on the back of a truck or inside a van, A-Team style and we as a country are going to have a very shitty day.

Should we be able to get those items? Yes. But there should be certifications, training, NFA style background checks required in order to have them. There should also be less infringement on ultra common SBR/SBS/cans/g18 types so that the appeal of the heavier, crew type firearms, fades or is not as strong for the average citizen. This may lead to less issues down the line concerning such matters as those items require a lot of steps/hoops to get simply because them falling in the wrong hands cannot be a reality.

[Hambo]

DanM, homicide detectives find forty 7.62x39 cases on the ground today. What difference does it make if they were sprayed FA or SA? The problem is the people wielding the guns.

Voodoo, we've had bikers, white supremacists, and militia types buying/selling/owning everything from belt fed MGs to LAW rockets already.

Meanwhile I've had friends with M60s, MG42s, M1919s, MP5s, M16s, M79s, and M203s not doing anything to anybody.

Deal with the problem children, not the tools.

[Mr. Goodtimes]

I think the NFA should be repealed in its entirety. The whole "too many gangsters have these evil machine guns" line of thinking is why it was passed in the first place. Give the cops some better tools as well.

I think in most cases, things wouldn't change that much... criminals would acquire cheap sub machine guns and assault rifles but heavy stuff like M2's and M240's etc... are cost prohibitive even without the NFA in place.

Bubba was too damn cheap to opt for a Glock over a sigma... you think he's going to throw down for an M2? Doubt it.





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[Peally]

If criminals had full auto they'd have even crappier aim.

[voodoo_man]

DanM, homicide detectives find forty 7.62x39 cases on the ground today. What difference does it make if they were sprayed FA or SA? The problem is the people wielding the guns.

Voodoo, we've had bikers, white supremacists, and militia types buying/selling/owning everything from belt fed MGs to LAW rockets already.

Meanwhile I've had friends with M60s, MG42s, M1919s, MP5s, M16s, M79s, and M203s not doing anything to anybody.

Deal with the problem children, not the tools.

I've seen crimes involving auto firearms, just not many. Out of them I can count on one hand how many crew weapons I've seen which were either stolen or somehow put together but most didn't work.

Opening the flood gates is not something which has logical backing...

[mmc45414]

Another way to look at this might be to separate what we might think is right to what might actually be made to happen. If they take cans offa the list, and after a few years the sky has not actually fallen, then SBR/SBS could go the same path.

When we first established a CHL here in Ohio, all of the normal suspect predicted all of the typical hysterical shit (ignoring that none of that had happened in any of ALL of the neighboring states), and there were many silly restrictions. A few years go by, and one by one most of the silly restrictions have been resolved. I think the availability of "gun mufflers" is a logical first step.

[scjbash]

Just to clarify my position and statements.

This statement

it is still our right as Americans to have these items and that right should not be infringed.

Does not compute with this one

there should be certifications, training, NFA style background checks required in order to have them. There should also be less infringement on ultra common SBR/SBS/cans/g18 types

[Grey]

Another way to look at this might be to separate what we might think is right to what might actually be made to happen. If they take cans offa the list, and after a few years the sky has not actually fallen, then SBR/SBS could go the same path.

When we first established a CHL here in Ohio, all of the normal suspect predicted all of the typical hysterical shit (ignoring that none of that had happened in any of ALL of the neighboring states), and there were many silly restrictions. A few years go by, and one by one most of the silly restrictions have been resolved. I think the availability of "gun mufflers" is a logical first step.

I realize your first line is hypothetical but honestly if cans are coming off the list then SBR and SBS should be off too. Making a SBS and SBR is so easy its a joke to have them regulated in the first place.

I fully support repealing some of the NFA. I am with voodoo for crew served and destructive devices. Do you really want joe shmoe driving down the road with a technical and 40mm HE grenades? I don't. I'm willing to give that up to keep some semblance of order on the street. If gun people are sorta WTF then trying to pass that off to the rest of society is just a non starter.

Lets get real shit done, not pipe dream shit.

[Hambo]

I've seen crimes involving auto firearms, just not many. Out of them I can count on one hand how many crew weapons I've seen which were either stolen or somehow put together but most didn't work.

Opening the flood gates is not something which has logical backing...

The point of the 2nd Amendment wasn't hunting, IDPA, USPSA, or concealed carry. If you read the Bill of Rights, they were very concerned about oppressive government: hence the right to bear arms, the prohibition on quartering troops, etc. From that perspective, you should have a Javelin system today.

That said, it's irrational to fear that there will be a huge crowd heading out to plunk down the price of a car for something from the Heavy Weapons Company. I don't see a lot of people looking for Korth or Kreighoff right now. Practical budget issues will limit what people buy.