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Thread: Concealable pistol mounted lights

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLG View Post
    This will be hard for me to effectively type, but I'll try. All of what I'm talking about is from my professional perspective. Some of it is applicable to civilians, and I use those aspects in my personal life. Some of it is just not applicable for civilian self defense issues.

    I strongly prefer a handheld light for most pistol applications. I can search with it, gun out or holstered. I can MUC with it. I can see my sights and shoot well with it one handed at any reasonable self defense range. So what does this have to do with using a WML? I don't see a WML as being very useful for civilians, except on a home defense gun. Even then, it is not how I would search my house. See above.

    So, the WML for me, is a very limited use item. When I really need it it is because I only have one hand. That occurs for me only once or twice a year typically, but no doubt other examples will spring to mind. When I'm clearing a tunnel, crawling on my hands and knees, and using my left hand to support my body and movement, I need a WML. When I'm clearing a roof, and need one hand on a ladder, or one hand on a rafter, becasue I'm walking on rafters and need the balance, I need a WML.

    In those types of circumstances, there are no flashy techniques. You just turn the light on, leave it on, and hope to see the bad guy before he shoots you. In those cases, the brighter the light the better. A laser is a big advantage for one handed shooting from awkward angles, like those contortions you get into described above.

    So, if I have two hands on the gun and am using the light, the downward temporary rocker on the Streamlight works very well for me and the way I grip a gun. It allows me to use the light more tactically, much like a handheld. If I need it one handed, then my trigger finger can swipe down on the switch and turn it on permanently. I have found both those options to be much more reliable for me than the Surefire switch. With the SF, you push forward for temp. I find that under recoil, I lose that connection more often than I would like. For permanent on, I find the SF switch to not move as smoothly as the Streamlight switch, but it is perfectly workable. Just not as nice.

    Though the switch moves differently, the Inforce light works exactly the same way for me as the Streamlight. Touch it for temp. Release when you want the light to go off. Tap it for permanent. Tap it again to shut it off.

    In reading the above, I don't think I was very clear, but I'm not sure what to do about it. The way the switches work, I personally prefer the TLR or Inforce to the SF, regardless of how I'm using the light. Since I mostly limit the WML to one handed use of the gun, any perceived drawback to those switches goes away for me. That's really the crux of it I think. My intended and actual use of the light is much more limited than the market would have you believe a WML is good for, so in that narrow range of use, the switching is less of an issue. Now, after using the TLR and APL for a while, I have come to prefer them for all WML uses.

    I stongly dislike dg switches or the contour switch from Streamlight. Both of them mess with my control of the light and gun more than I want. I also have small hands, and I demand a certain level of shootability and recoil control. If you have bigger hands, or are less caring about how the switches affect your grip, then thats a different story.

    On a handgun, no accessory is more important than your ability to grip it well. This gets back to what the role of the handgun is. Except for the limited circumstances noted above, I would have no need for a WML, and would not go to hassle of carrying one.

    That said, we are working on a new concept in holsters to accommodate the duty size lights and lasers. More soon.
    Good post, SLG.

    With regard to the DG/Contour switches, I had the same issues (as highlighted above). Additionally, I have issues reaching the conventional switches with my short digits. I eventually just dumped the WML on a pistol, although I'd be interested in the Sig 320/250 frame w/ the integrated laser.....if it ever comes out...........and if it's made with the small grip frame.
    "It's surprising how often you start wondering just how featureless a desert some people's inner landscapes must be."
    -Maple Syrup Actual

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLG View Post
    This will be hard for me to effectively type, but I'll try. All of what I'm talking about is from my professional perspective. Some of it is applicable to civilians, and I use those aspects in my personal life. Some of it is just not applicable for civilian self defense issues.

    I strongly prefer a handheld light for most pistol applications. I can search with it, gun out or holstered. I can MUC with it. I can see my sights and shoot well with it one handed at any reasonable self defense range. So what does this have to do with using a WML? I don't see a WML as being very useful for civilians, except on a home defense gun. Even then, it is not how I would search my house. See above.

    So, the WML for me, is a very limited use item. When I really need it it is because I only have one hand. That occurs for me only once or twice a year typically, but no doubt other examples will spring to mind. When I'm clearing a tunnel, crawling on my hands and knees, and using my left hand to support my body and movement, I need a WML. When I'm clearing a roof, and need one hand on a ladder, or one hand on a rafter, becasue I'm walking on rafters and need the balance, I need a WML.

    In those types of circumstances, there are no flashy techniques. You just turn the light on, leave it on, and hope to see the bad guy before he shoots you. In those cases, the brighter the light the better. A laser is a big advantage for one handed shooting from awkward angles, like those contortions you get into described above.

    So, if I have two hands on the gun and am using the light, the downward temporary rocker on the Streamlight works very well for me and the way I grip a gun. It allows me to use the light more tactically, much like a handheld. If I need it one handed, then my trigger finger can swipe down on the switch and turn it on permanently. I have found both those options to be much more reliable for me than the Surefire switch. With the SF, you push forward for temp. I find that under recoil, I lose that connection more often than I would like. For permanent on, I find the SF switch to not move as smoothly as the Streamlight switch, but it is perfectly workable. Just not as nice.

    Though the switch moves differently, the Inforce light works exactly the same way for me as the Streamlight. Touch it for temp. Release when you want the light to go off. Tap it for permanent. Tap it again to shut it off.

    In reading the above, I don't think I was very clear, but I'm not sure what to do about it. The way the switches work, I personally prefer the TLR or Inforce to the SF, regardless of how I'm using the light. Since I mostly limit the WML to one handed use of the gun, any perceived drawback to those switches goes away for me. That's really the crux of it I think. My intended and actual use of the light is much more limited than the market would have you believe a WML is good for, so in that narrow range of use, the switching is less of an issue. Now, after using the TLR and APL for a while, I have come to prefer them for all WML uses.

    I stongly dislike dg switches or the contour switch from Streamlight. Both of them mess with my control of the light and gun more than I want. I also have small hands, and I demand a certain level of shootability and recoil control. If you have bigger hands, or are less caring about how the switches affect your grip, then thats a different story.

    On a handgun, no accessory is more important than your ability to grip it well. This gets back to what the role of the handgun is. Except for the limited circumstances noted above, I would have no need for a WML, and would not go to hassle of carrying one.

    That said, we are working on a new concept in holsters to accommodate the duty size lights and lasers. More soon.
    Good post, SLG.

    With regard to the DG/Contour switches, I had the same issues (as highlighted above). Additionally, I have issues reaching the conventional switches with my short digits. I eventually just dumped the WML on a pistol, although I'd be interested in the Sig 320/250 frame w/ the integrated laser.....if it ever comes out...........and if it's made with the small grip frame.

    Funny that my inability to reach the switches cries out for the DG/Contour, but they in turn destroy my grip/control.
    Last edited by Chuck Whitlock; 01-22-2017 at 06:12 PM.
    "It's surprising how often you start wondering just how featureless a desert some people's inner landscapes must be."
    -Maple Syrup Actual

  3. #23
    Thanks Chuck! Glad I'm not the only one who feels that way about the switches.
    Last edited by SLG; 01-22-2017 at 06:14 PM.

  4. #24
    Site Supporter LOKNLOD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Whitlock View Post
    Good post, SLG.
    Agreed. Thanks.

    Although I'd be interested in the Sig 320/250 frame w/ the integrated laser.....if it ever comes out...........and if it's made with the small grip frame.
    You know, I was thinking about making a post about those just the other day. I really like the concept.
    --Josh
    “Formerly we suffered from crimes; now we suffer from laws.” - Tacitus.

  5. #25
    Member That Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLG View Post
    Please let us know what you end up with and what you think about it.
    That might take a while, mind you.

    That new APL gen3 sounds interesting... But we'll see when that'll be available to me.

  6. #26
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    Another new option coming to the market seems to be a 4sevens WML:

    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...ght-shot-2017/

    Edit: Oops. Looks like peterb already mentioned this on page 1 of this thread.
    Last edited by That Guy; 02-06-2017 at 06:18 AM.

  7. #27
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    How does one tell between an APL v1 and an APL v2 that doesn't suck?

  8. #28
    Member That Guy's Avatar
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    Version 2 attachment is tightened by basically a flathead screw. Version 1 uses a fancier lever (that doesn't always work).

  9. #29
    Member 23JAZ's Avatar
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    Arizona
    Quote Originally Posted by 1776United View Post
    http://soldiersystems.net/2017/01/17...ts-introduced/

    For those like me that wanted to see it. Looks pretty sweet.
    Anyone have any idea when that compact will be available?
    212

  10. #30
    Supporting Business NH Shooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony1911 View Post
    Another new option coming to the market seems to be a 4sevens WML.
    Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but due to the USB port I don't think this light is truly waterproof, which IMO makes it a non-starter for serious carry use. FWIW, the APL is rated to 66 feet of submersion depth - it's nice to know the light can be submerged with no issues.

    I own some 4Sevens Quarks (old versions) and really like them. That said, they are no where near as well made as a Malkoff or Surefire. Just my 2-cents, but most of the Chinese lights seem gimmicky to me - I don't need the ability to select from a dozen different flashing SOS variations and other programming modes that I have no use for. Based on what I've read, their new WML strikes me the same way with features I don't need; USB only charging, inability to take a common Li-ion or lithium battery, a "backup light" on the bottom, switch programming modes, unknown durability, etc. Maybe it will prove to be better than I'm anticipating...

    I'll take simple-to-use, durable, waterproof, compact and reliable all day, every day. I've been running an APL (original version) on a Glock 17 with no issues until recently, when it started draining the battery while in storage. Inforce promptly replaced it with a Gen 2.

    For in-house HD use, I find 200 lumens more than adequate. The APL is compact and lightweight enough on my G17 to remain easily concealable under a jacket and easy to carry in a JM Custom OWB holster. IMO, it strikes an excellent balance between size/weight, build quality, ease-of-operation and light output.
    Last edited by NH Shooter; 02-09-2017 at 11:13 AM.

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