2/3 Border Patrol job applicants fail polygraph test, making hiring difficult

[psalms144.1]

Why are we still using a test that has been thoroughly debunked to screen for anything? Inertia?

Because, to polygraphers and polygraph believers, the test IS a scientific and reliable system. Just like folks who blindly believe the .45 Auto will kill people just from blast overpressure at the muzzle, believers will NEVER give up their ties to this system. And, frankly, since the FBI uses it for hiring practices, the "bar" is pre-set...

[blues]

Because, to polygraphers and polygraph believers, the test IS a scientific and reliable system. Just like folks who blindly believe the .45 Auto will kill people just from blast overpressure at the muzzle, believers will NEVER give up their ties to this system. And, frankly, since the FBI uses it for hiring practices, the "bar" is pre-set...

And let's face it, chicken guts can be messy. You don't want to spill them on your nice oxford shirt and wingtips.

[Baldanders]

That's a very reasonable question with probably few satisfying answers.

(From an agency perspective it's a great way to rid yourself of a candidate you're looking to be shut of, rightly or wrongly.)

Between you and Psalms, I think I'm "satisfied", in that your answers cover organizational political pragmatism and confirmation bias as the causes. Sounds about right.

In the other sense of "satisfying," yeah, not so much.

[randyho]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lasso_of_Truth

It's an interesting read for anyone who's been on the receiving end. First time I saw this was a remarkably ygtbfkm moment.

[sierra 223]

I have zero faith in a polygraph

[blues]

I have zero faith in a polygraph

And with good reason , imho and experience.

If I could be deemed deceptive when the examination was conducted by a friend and partner who performed the test at my request on a machine he calibrated...what might happen under less ideal circumstance when one's answers might actually be of consequence?

For me, it was simply a lark and a curiosity to see how it felt and what it would make out of completely honest replies but for the ones where I was told to be deceptive intentionally.

Yeah...no.

[Caballoflaco]

I found this on the dept of justice website regarding polygraphs:

“Consequently, the government continues to have several good arguments for excluding polygraph evidence. First, a prosecutor can still attack the reliability of polygraph evidence both generally and as administered in the case at hand. The FBI polygraph unit has provided affidavits and live testimony in several district courts to rebut a defendant's proffer that his polygraph results are reliable, and stands ready to assist any prosecutor confronted with such a motion to introduce polygraph results.”

The FBI polygraph unit will testify in court that polygraphs are unreliable and shouldn’t be admissible in court as evidence.

Why is has this “scientology” not been relegated to the same realm as phrenology in popular use?


Quote is from here: https://www.justice.gov/jm/criminal-...oduction-trial

[willie]

I have observed that the pt is one way to get l.e. applicants to confess to prior and current drug use. If I tell the examiner in an interview that I have snorted cocaine no more than 50 times, then the test itself no longer matters. Ditto for frequency of marijuana use. I have been excluded. A good friend is a retired l.e. pt examiner. He told me three things. He would not take one. Results had low reliability. But if he could subject a person to an 8 hr examination, his results would be more reliable.

I worked with juvenile sex offenders, all of whom were given pt's to validate therapy progress. Questions pertained to fantasies like sex with the family members that they abused. I pointed out to the director that most of his employees could not pass a fantasy test when one considers how many of them had been caught screwing the kids. He said I was negative.

[CWM11B]

Two take away from this thread for me:

1. My previous (and long held belief) that the polygraph is right up there with tarot cards, ouija boards, runes, and the magic eight ball is validated.

2. If the BP truly treats applicants in this manner, I'm glad I never aspired, much less applied, to the agency.

[bpack325]

I've actually met more people in the southern AZ area that had theirs go almost identically like mine - long adversarial first session where you're accused of murder, 2nd session where you're called a drug smuggler, and boom you're out. Killed my LE dream and got me into PTA school. Think I'll have a longer, more enjoyable career doing that instead.