Best Gun for Non-Dedicated Shooters.

[SLG]

Honestly, there is no gun appropriate for the once a year shooter.

Obviously plenty of people have succeeded on the once a year plan, but actually recommending ANYTHING these days, to the once a year person, is probably a bad idea.

Which chainsaw should they get if they don't want any training? Which car? Which motorcycle?

Again, people do all those things without meaningful training. I just don't know how anyone recommends they go about it.

eta: I know no one here is recommending they don't get training. Can't type today...or any other day.

[LSP972]

K

Honestly, there is no gun appropriate.

Again, people do all those things without meaningful training. I just don't know how anyone recommends they do it.

They do what they THINK they know. Very few of them DO know...and the rest majority of the people out actually trying to defend themselves day to day do what they think is best. They don't, of course.

Hey, I suspect you have been like others of us for a very long time... trying to get the few seriously active folks squared away. Personally, I stopped helping anyone except my immediate relatives some time ago. The rest, I just smile at and nod to them a lot these days.

There is still a few folks around here, like you, who know me better enough to give me a straight, good answer. That is appreciative, and useful. In some ways, really cutting down everything since it all near-collapsed... and now trying to get back to much less "pressure"... Has been better and easier.

Kind of like it, actually.

.

[BehindBlueI's]

Honestly, there is no gun appropriate for the once a year shooter.

Obviously plenty of people have succeeded on the once a year plan, but actually recommending ANYTHING these days, to the once a year person, is probably a bad idea.

Which chainsaw should they get if they don't want any training? Which car? Which motorcycle?

Again, people do all those things without meaningful training. I just don't know how anyone recommends they go about it.

eta: I know no one here is recommending they don't get training. Can't type today...or any other day.

I always recommend training, a layered defense, etc. I just face reality that it's going to be ignored 90%+ of the time. I also know that someone who's decided to get a gun because they were just victimized, their neighbor was just victimized, etc. is going to get a gun no matter what I tell them. Telling them "no gun is the answer" just deprives me of the chance to give them some input that may increase their safety.

[Beat Trash]

SLG has the real answer.

I still cringe when I go to a gun store and overhear the salesman running off at the mouth about the ultra light weight J-Frame revolver being the perfect pistol for the female customer who has never fired a round in her life.

I think that the K-Frame 38 special is a great revolver. Anyone who has been involved in guns and is over 50 will most likely have spent some time with the DA revolver. In my younger years, I used to shoot PPC matches with modified DA revolvers. I could shoot them well. But it took a lot of practice to master the DA trigger, as well as reloads under stress.

A DA revolver is a great tool if you're only looking for administrative handling of a gun by a novice. I would argue that if you're looking for a tool to effectively put rounds on target under stress, a DA revolver isn't the best option for the novice. At the end of the day, a gun is just a launching platform for a bullet. So the ability for the shooter to effectively put rounds on target is a factor.

A basic introduction to handgun class at a rental range with various different types of guns for the students to try is the preferred option. Or the ability to provide similar instruction and exposure privately.

For a true non-dedicated shooter, I thing the best gun would be an 18" barreled shotgun with a fixed stock.

[Duelist]

This is an interesting thread.

I had a conversation with a co-worker last year about what each of us planned to do the next weekend, and then over the summer break. She was interested in the idea that I would go shoot a pistol match, and mentioned that she wanted to get a pistol so she would be more comfortable hiking and camping by herself.

Well, I invited her out to the range.

She actually showed up.

She listened, and tried out every gun we handed her. She formed opinions, and then went out and bought herself a SigPro SP2022 in 9mm, just like mine. She shoots at least once a month, got a Shield 9 because the Sig is bigger than she wants to carry, and shot the Sig in her first match this month. She came in dead last, but she talks about it like it was the greatest experience ever.

Contrast that with another co-worker. She was worried about safety, and wanted to get something that goes bang to increase her feeling of safety. She and her mom and her sister all had been worried about it. She asked for recommendations. I said, well, check out revolvers, and told her why, but then said, if they don't appeal, just get a Glock 19 or 17. She asked why, and I said that they are the generic, basic choice for a good handgun. I compared it to somebody asking for advice on what car to buy, and not knowing much about cars or what they wanted in it except to be able to drive it, I'd tell them to get a Honda Civic. It may be perfectly adequate for their needs until they wear it out, or they may form opinions or discover needs it isn't adequate for, but it will take care of most needs for most people just fine.

She and her mom and her sister went out and bought three Glock 17s. That was two months ago. She didn't get any ammo. It's been locked up in its factory plastic box under her bed for two months. Ive invited her to go shoot it almost every weekend, but she's always got something else to do that's more important.

She needs a sock drawer gun. Is the Glock 17 the best gun for that? I don't know, but I'll bet it doesn't matter too much. Unless she went to the store this weekend, she still doesn't have any ammunition. Unless she decides she likes shooting as much as our other co-worker, and it develops into a favored hobby, I suspect she'll eventually shoot it at the range a few times, and then keep a loaded magazine in her house separate from it, and not think too much about it. She might go shoot as often as once a year, eventually. The Glock will be as likely as anything else to run under those conditions, should she ever need it.

That, or in a year or two, she'll sell an unfired Glock 17 to a more interested co-worker and buy her son a toy or something.

[Shawn Dodson]

DAO revolver. Same trigger pull for every shot. Dryfire training is exactly like range training except without the recoil. No need to work a slide to reset the trigger. No hammer that can be manually cocked during a confrontation leading to an ND.

[Al T.]

Would talks recommendation change for a female or male?

Not gender, but hand strength and hand size. We get a fair amount of first time gun owners and those two factors require the counter monkey to pay attention. If the new owner can't rack the slide, which gun it is doesn't matter. FWIW, the Walther CCP, PK380 and the S&W Compact .22 seem to work well, though we seem to have problems getting the CCPs.

[SLG]

Obviously people will do what they want, and if buying a gun makes them feel safe, then they will buy a gun.

What I literally tell people today, is that if they are willing to get some basic training, like a 1 or 2 day class, and then plan on shooting twice a year, then I'm happy to help them. If they can't or won't do those things, I tell them they are better off without a gun.

If they are willing, then I will either let them try whatever they like and go from there, or if they don't want to or have other issues (budget, strength etc) then I recommend a used k frame revolver with a 3 or 4 inch barrel. CT laser grips as well, and a trigger job if it needs it. Also a dao modification. That gets them into a solid gun that costs about as much as a glock with night sights.

I've never met a reasonably normal person who couldn't shoot a DAO revolver "accurately enough" at room distances with a laser. And really, this whole thread is about "good enough". A hard concept for me to wrap my mind around.

[BehindBlueI's]

Admin vs "shootability":

In 2016 we had 86 NDs resulting in injury or death. The vast vast majority were with semi-auto handguns. The revolver ones included one antique dropped on the hammer, resulting in a discharge, and general "playing with it". Admin handling accounted for a whole lot of the NDs. Reversing the clearing steps or dropping the mag and not clearing the chamber being the two main culprits. That's impossible to do with a revolver. Justified self defense shootings outside of LEO was a bit under 10, and that includes criminals defending themselves from other criminals. So, admin handling is absolutely priority #1.

Then look at self defense from random folks. Not crazy ex-husband, not doper on doper shooting, but actual random home invasions or street robberies. I'm not right in front of my stats, but one on one the untrained do really well regardless of if they hit or not. Against multiple opponents the wheels start to fall off...but again so do those who are well trained. The actual shooting is the easy part in most of them. The distances are incredibly close and distance negates the need for skill. So, yes, the differences in ability of the novice with (insert whatever gun you think is easy for novices to shoot under stress here) vs a GP100 for Joe Suburbs and his wife are largely irrelevant in all but a few circumstances.

Other general thoughts:

More skill is better. More accurate is better. Etc. Good enough is often just that. It's easy to get judge-y when it's also a passion of ours, but I think everyone here intellectually knows they are in more danger in traffic than of being shot...yet how much time and money are you spending on driver's training? Probably none since you got your license if you aren't a cop or medic and had to take EVOC. How many people learn basic first aid and the like? So, yes, I get the vast majority are not going to put the time in to be a "good shooter" yet still have the right to self defense, so I'm going to recommend them a gun if they ask me. Some may even decide they like it and go on to become part of the "gun culture", whatever that is, and the more folks who view guns in a positive light then the more secure our rights are in the long term.

[spinmove_]

I'm not a professional trainer or SME, but IMO a revolver sounds good on paper but leaves some things to be desired.

Trigger pull is heavy and long. Less chance of shooting themselves, but also less chance of getting a good hit on a BG. I'd almost say if they're keen on wanting a safety an M&P9c w/thumb safety. If they don't want a safety or are comfortable with no safety the M&P9c, G19, G17, P2000 LEM, P30 LEM.

I think DA/SA is a poor choice for non-dedicated shooters as it's too complex for them. SAO is probably a bit too complex also.

In my encounters with "switched off" people they're generally REALLY switched off and I see them do stupid things like muzzling and completely ignoring the safety regardless of if it's loaded or not despite trigger finger placement and reminding them that they're doing it wrong with manipulations. Keep it simple because they're generally not listening all that well to something they don't care all that much about and the more intuitive you can make something the better.

I hate to make car to gun analogies, but think of people who are "switched on" car people. They're generally going to drive a manual or something with flappy-paddles. Most people who just have a car to get somewhere? Automatic of some flavor. Average Joes who don't care about guns are best served by "an automatic of some flavor". IMHO of course.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy