I trained with Jeff back in the 90's and am well aware of him. No insult to him was intended. I just find the gi's funny in this context.Originally Posted by Dagga Boy
Looks like Jeff thinks highly of Grossman ...he is apparently a brown belt under Jeff.
Normally, I would agree. However, a couple of the biggest studs and hard ass straight up gunfighting killing machines I have been around also spend a ton of time in a Gi or have in their lives. It's hard to discount that. I think some folks think that the gi and the belt rankings equal some form of status as a fighter, when the truth in reality is that an actual proven fighter with a Gi and belt rankings likely has a solid means of refining their mental discipline and a sub conscious level of physical control of their body that are huge positives.
Last edited by Dagga Boy; 01-15-2017 at 04:59 PM.
Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard. Snarky and easily butt hurt. Favorite animal is the Cape Buffalo....likely indicative of a personality disorder.
"If I had a grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton".
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks some of what Grossman sells is snake oil. I like On Combat a lot but there was a lot of nonsense in On Killing, not the least of which was that some of SLA Marshals statistics were made up.
I also can't get over the video game thing. People have been doing awful, heinous things to each other for many millennia without violent movies and video games. None of his claims on that topic are supported by research. A good portion of his recent American Warrior Show podcast interview consisted of this drivel so he's still actively preaching it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My posts only represent my personal opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of any employer, past or present. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.
I attended his eight hour seminar here in Ohio that was put on by the PA Army National Guard (don't ask me). His information seemed dated and the industry would be better served by a lecture from Tom Givens!
I do not discount the video game stuff. I just don't agree with it being a new or different thing. Humans need to kill to survive. Usually it is animals, at times it is other humans. All cultures need to desensitize to killing. In many cultures, kids have been watching animals getting killed since birth. Even traditions regarding a first kill with eating of the heart of an animal are meant to desensitize the process. Giving children jobs like the skinning, slaughtering, cleaning and preparation of animals for eating is all related to this process. Looking at kids in a modern culture where things to eat are killed and processed by others, a culture where they do not see death from war, raiding, or clan or tribal rivalries, the video game is simply another desensitization process for a technological culture. Same culture that has perfected the art of killing with drones and video guided munitions. Those video games can be both good and bad depending on the "culture" they are used in and the supervision around them.
Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard
"If I had a grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton".
I read both his books, On Combat and On Killing when I was in the academy, then a few years later I had a chance to go to his seminar - I don't remember if it is his modern Bullet Proof version or what it was called then, might have been called "street survival, violence for LE" or something?
Anyway...
I read the books while being force fed info via shotgun method in the academy, then went to that seminar after being involved in various things that the books covered.
Only two points I found to be valid in his books that I personally experienced and/or seen coworkers experience.
First was that no one has the same affects every time and the same person may have different affects for each separate incident, specifically talking about audio inclusion/exclusion, fast motion time, bullet time, temporary amnesia and so forth - the physical stuff. As he said in the books the repeated exposure to this level of violence becomes more and more accepted and has less of an impact over time, both physically and mentally.
The second was that people are cowards, especially in modern day America. Most will not show up to the fight, or at least act as though they will but take their time, and those who do show up are those that have either been exposed to it before and look for it. Many times I have experienced arriving on a hot call and my backup either never does or gets there after I made contact.
Everything else, especially about the guilt/regret/negative side effects and all the "causation factors" is not accurate in my experience. The video game thing, as Sean M mentioned is just complete horseshit. Most of the things he talks about that may cause "violence" in various people is completely inaccurate, in my opinion.
Of course my reason for reading the books and going to the seminar was to get some sort of idea of how I should be reacting or feeling, both mentally and physically during these types of "violent" situations. Honestly I got more out of Emotional Survival For LE which isn't even that big of a book, but hits the concepts and realities hard with facts backed up by science. I'd say 95% of the info in that book is accurate from first hand experience, even gave it to my wife to read which she did. She thought Grossman's books were bullshit too, having lived through a revolution in her country.
VDMSR.com
Chief Developer for V Development Group
Everything I post I do so as a private individual who is not representing any company or organization.
I got more out of my last bowel movement than I got out of On Killing and On Combat.
You can get much more of what you want with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.
The problem with Grossman is that he writes and speaks over a broad number of subject. On some stuff is is 100% right. On other stuff, he is 100% wrong. There is no easy way to tell which is which. He is an engaging and attention keeping speaker which makes the separation of wheat from chaff all the more difficult, and important.
- It's not the odds, it's the stakes.
- If you aren't dry practicing every week, you're not serious.....
- "Tache-Psyche Effect - a polite way of saying 'You suck.' " - GG
I do have to give the guy credit for that. As your average, boring civilian, I had never given the psychological aspect of violence any consideration prior to that book.
To the folks that have actually been there: what would you recommend people read on this subject?
He droned on and on and on about this in 'On Combat.' If I recall correctly, he mostly bases this on the "fact" that rates of violence seemed to steadily increase with the widespread availability of television. Correlations don't really mean much to begin with, but that one is so ridiculously shaky, it's sad.
"Sapiens dicit: 'Ignoscere divinum est, sed noli pretium plenum pro pizza sero allata solvere.'" - Michelangelo
Sure,we can all agree though that the journey of self discovery is more important than any one or two steps along the way.
There was no, and may still be no, definitive text on this subject which I would have recommended to my much younger, inexperienced self.
Maybe I'll write a book...lol
VDMSR.com
Chief Developer for V Development Group
Everything I post I do so as a private individual who is not representing any company or organization.
Reply With Quote