Dave Grossman Seminar

[Odin Bravo One]

Dude stated for years that a large factor for violence in this country was desensitization of the perpetrators and was directly related to video games and movies.......................what was worse, is that he honestly believed it.

I asked him when this argument was presented at a lecture I got stuck attending how that was possible since Cain didn't have access to movies or video games when he crushed Able. He was quick to point out that was a biblical myth, with no evidence to back up that it ever happened. So I quickly fast forwarded to Rwanda in 1994. Having been there, in person, on the ground, I saw for a fact there were no video games or movies influencing that human rights debacle. He had an answer of course, but his positions and opinions directly contradict the reality of what actually happens in violent confrontations.

At the end of the day, he cannot speak intelligently about such violence, and the human response because he has never experienced actual violence. The kind of violence that questions one's beliefs, and/or profoundly changes how they view their fellow man, and his capability for violence.

He has helped some people. And if people have benefited from his work, then it is not all bad.

That said, he may as well be teaching people how to perform open heart, and neuro surgery. I wouldn't want a surgeon, who was trained by him to slice open a family member for a life saving procedure. Information without experience is just information. Knowledge comes from applying the information in the context it is relevant. Wisdom forms after enough experience to identify and apply the information and knowledge to know what has actually worked, and what has not...........and most importantly, why/why not it did, or did not work.

He possesses only the information. Not enough to be an expert in my non-expert opinion.

[LittleLebowski]

Dude stated for years that a large factor for violence in this country was desensitization of the perpetrators and was directly related to video games and movies.......................what was worse, is that he honestly believed it.

I asked him when this argument was presented at a lecture I got stuck attending how that was possible since Cain didn't have access to movies or video games when he crushed Able. He was quick to point out that was a biblical myth, with no evidence to back up that it ever happened. So I quickly fast forwarded to Rwanda in 1994. Having been there, in person, on the ground, I saw for a fact there were no video games or movies influencing that human rights debacle. He had an answer of course, but his positions and opinions directly contradict the reality of what actually happens in violent confrontations.

At the end of the day, he cannot speak intelligently about such violence, and the human response because he has never experienced actual violence. The kind of violence that questions one's beliefs, and/or profoundly changes how they view their fellow man, and his capability for violence.

He has helped some people. And if people have benefited from his work, then it is not all bad.

That said, he may as well be teaching people how to perform open heart, and neuro surgery. I wouldn't want a surgeon, who was trained by him to slice open a family member for a life saving procedure. Information without experience is just information. Knowledge comes from applying the information in the context it is relevant. Wisdom forms after enough experience to identify and apply the information and knowledge to know what has actually worked, and what has not...........and most importantly, why/why not it did, or did not work.

He possesses only the information. Not enough to be an expert in my non-expert opinion.

Worth quoting again and again.

[ranger]

I give him credit for at least getting the topic out there with his book "On Killing". Very few discuss the topic of "killing" versus "shooting". I know lots of people who own guns, a few who regularly carry guns, and extremely few who think past "shooting" a gun.

[jetfire]

Dude stated for years that a large factor for violence in this country was desensitization of the perpetrators and was directly related to video games and movies.......................what was worse, is that he honestly believed it.

I asked him when this argument was presented at a lecture I got stuck attending how that was possible since Cain didn't have access to movies or video games when he crushed Able. He was quick to point out that was a biblical myth, with no evidence to back up that it ever happened. So I quickly fast forwarded to Rwanda in 1994. Having been there, in person, on the ground, I saw for a fact there were no video games or movies influencing that human rights debacle. He had an answer of course, but his positions and opinions directly contradict the reality of what actually happens in violent confrontations.

At the end of the day, he cannot speak intelligently about such violence, and the human response because he has never experienced actual violence. The kind of violence that questions one's beliefs, and/or profoundly changes how they view their fellow man, and his capability for violence.

He has helped some people. And if people have benefited from his work, then it is not all bad.

That said, he may as well be teaching people how to perform open heart, and neuro surgery. I wouldn't want a surgeon, who was trained by him to slice open a family member for a life saving procedure. Information without experience is just information. Knowledge comes from applying the information in the context it is relevant. Wisdom forms after enough experience to identify and apply the information and knowledge to know what has actually worked, and what has not...........and most importantly, why/why not it did, or did not work.

He possesses only the information. Not enough to be an expert in my non-expert opinion.

Fuckin' a, cotton.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JohnO]

Dude stated for years that a large factor for violence in this country was desensitization of the perpetrators and was directly related to video games and movies.......................what was worse, is that he honestly believed it.

Somewhere out there is a trainload of contributing factors that Grossman totally missed or chooses to ignore because they don't fit his narrative. Grossman's argument about video games and TV/movies just does not stand up to critical examination.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The psych and criminological literature has numerous studies that don't support the video/movie mantra as crucial in mass killings.

[KneeShot]

I posted the initial AAR. In response to some of the posts (seperataly) regarding, video games, gun control and violence I think he has changed his tune. That was my first and only seminar so I have no other presentations to compare it to, aside from reading some of On Killing (where the video game thing was obvious). This is not a fanboy defense of the man, it is further sharing my experience as a comparison.

Video Games - he didn't bring up violent video games one time. However he did mention the Texting and Driving epidemic, and a correlation of Teenagers, Suicide, Bullying and cellphones. He advocated for taking away your child's cellphone when they go to bed.

Violence - he spoke about good men being able and prepared to do Violence against bad men. He talked about the color conditions in relation to heart rate and a persons physiological response to combat - basically saying the better physical, mentally and fundamentally trained you are - the calmer you can remain and better you will perform.

Gun control - if I never heard it from you guys I probably wouldn't have believed it. He seemed to be a big fan of CCW and the right to carry and defend yourself, family and neighbors. He spoke for awhile about locking down and arming our children's schools.

He was definitely pedaling books, and advertising during the presentation. His son runs a gun smithing business and he had pamphlets for it etc...


Something I found interesting was Sean M's - Cain and Able discussion he described w/ Grossman. During the presentation I attended Grossman used a lot of Biblical references. Those 2 experiences kind of contradict... I do not doubt what SeanM has said at all. It may be an example of the way Grossman continues to change his views - hopefully for the better and not just a way to make money.

And can anyone speak to HoJutsu???

Jeremy

[SLG]

Wasn't hojutsu part of the dry fire kata stuff, or am I confusing it?

just looked it up...spiffy gi's.

[orionz06]

Wasn't hojutsu part of the dry fire kata stuff, or am I confusing it?

just looked it up...spiffy gi's.

Probably cheap too...

[Dagga Boy]

Wasn't hojutsu part of the dry fire kata stuff, or am I confusing it?

just looked it up...spiffy gi's.

Confusing things I think. I will say that the lecture that Lt. Jeff Hall does on "Finishing the fight" is everything Grossman's should be, and would be far more useful to cops. Lt. Hall is both a friend and mentor, and has been there done that in regards to everything he talks about.
He is also a lifelong traditional martial arts guy. I appreciate his passion for recognizing that use of a handgun is a martial art and applying some traditional principles with discipline, structure and mindset, and I don't find Hojitsu as a negative. Just like I would never say that a person who has spent their life in traditional Judo is some kind of joke. It would likely be a huge asset when added to a defensive tactics and hand to hand fighting program rather than a liability.

Honestly, to put Jeff Hall in the same ilk as Grossman is Not a good representation of Jeff and his contributions to the LE community because of his passion for his Hojutsu program. Grossman has drank a lot of kool aid over the years, including Bruce Siddle's crap. Lots of instructors have participated in the Hojiutsu stuff, and I have a feeling Grossman may be adding to his "expertness" with it.