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Thread: Mike Pannone's Marksmanship Evaluation Course of Fire.

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Les Pepperoni View Post
    I love Mike's stuff, but damn: Edit the video and remove the cruft, for the love of kittens.

    Just overlay the times onto the screen...
    I set a camera up for testing as Mike started running the course of fire thinking we would run it again. After he was done with the drills he said we'll go with that.

    Speaking for myself I like that the entire course of fire being uncut. You know how he shot the entire course of fire, that he didn't cherry pick the best runs on certain portions and that the speed of the video wasn't messed with. Anyone that knows Mike knows he wouldn't do that but not everyone knows Mike.

    Whenever I'm around Mike I'm always impressed how passionate he is about teaching/improving the people around him. It's one of those shut your mouth unless you have a good question, open your ears and let learning occur.
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  2. #22
    Member s0nspark's Avatar
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    For anyone struggling with the original 8.6gb uncompressed video, I have transcoded it to mp4 (no editing done, just converted formats) which cut the size down to a more easily sharable 120mb.

    Here is a link to the mp4 in my Dropbox: http://bit.ly/CTT-MEC
    "A man's character is his fate."

  3. #23
    Leopard Printer Mr_White's Avatar
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    Can anyone help me with this? I've been reading through it because it is cool and I want to shoot it when I get the chance, but I'm getting confused about the scoring protocols.

    ---

    Paraphrasing, here's what I get from reading the directions and watching the demo video:

    Level 1/2/3 (the time component) is ranked separately from Distinguished Expert/Expert/Sharpshooter/Marksman (the points component)...

    The lowest Level (time component) on any one sting is the highest level that can be achieved...

    Distinguished Expert (points component) only comes into play if the Level 1 times are met on every string, not just cumulatively on each stage...

    Distinguished Expert-C (points component) only comes into play if the Level 1 times are met on every string, not just cumulatively on each stage, AND no concealment bonus is used...

    Distinguished Expert-C is the theoretical maximum score on the MEC...

    ---

    As examples, would it then be correct that:

    140 points, even with all times meeting the Level 1 cumulative stage time threshold = Fail, did not meet minimum rankings?

    200 points, with any of the times below the Level 3 cumulative stage time threshold (including concealment bonus, if applicable) = Fail, did not meet minimum rankings?

    200 points, with all times meeting the Level 3 cumulative stage time threshold (including concealment bonus, if applicable) = Level 3 Expert?

    150 points, with all times meeting the Level 1 cumulative stage time threshold (including concealment bonus, if applicable) = Level 1 Marksman?

    180 points, with all times meeting the Level 1 cumulative stage time threshold (including concealment bonus, if applicable) = Level 1 Expert?

    200 points, with all times meeting the Level 1 individual string time threshold (from open carry, so no concealment bonus applicable) = Level 1 Distinguished Expert?

    200 points, with all times meeting the Level 1 individual string time threshold (from concealment but without using the concealment bonus) = Level 1 Distinguished Expert-C?

    200 points, with all times meeting the Level 1 individual string time threshold (from concealment, but using the concealment bonus) = Level 1 Distinguished Expert? Or is this kicked back to Level 1 Expert?

    And in Mike Pannone's demo video, he shot 182 points, made all Level 1 cumulative stage times (not every Level 1 individual string time, but that's immaterial since it wasn't 200 points and is not eligible for Distinguished Expert anyway, which also makes not using the concealment bonus a moral victory also irrelevant to score in this case), and so would have scored Level 1 Expert?

    ---

    Is that right? I have read the description and watched the video a number of times, and that's what I think I am getting from it. If that is right, then how are different combinations of time/accuracy ranking supposed to be compared? For example, which is better - Level 1 Sharpshooter or Level 2 Expert?

    Thanks to anyone who can clarify any of this for me! Lots of moving parts in this one.
    Technical excellence supports tactical preparedness
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  4. #24
    Site Supporter JohnO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_White View Post

    Very cool that he and I both came up with .25 as a handicap for concealment.
    For the 20 years I've known Chuck Taylor he has always added a quarter second to his Drill times for working from concealment. One difference from Mike's handicaps is that Chuck never gave you an extra 1/4 sec. if the drill also included a reload. To be fair though Chuck's times are run from a stopwatch, whistle and Chuck's judgement. Chuck keeps it rather tight but the timer is a whole different animal and doesn't mince times.

  5. #25
    I just thought I was dumb, but I have the same questions as Gabe, and I don't doubt his intelligence.

    I also don't understand the concept of forcing you to shoot at your level. If the scoring system is valid, on any shooting test, you will always shoot at your level, minus getting lucky here or there.

    Anyone who has trained with Mike able to explain his thought process?

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by SLG View Post
    I just thought I was dumb, but I have the same questions as Gabe, and I don't doubt his intelligence.
    I kept watching the video and looking at the form as well because I had the same questions as you and Gabe. I''m glad Gabe posted them up, I'm interested to see the answers. Gabe is a smarty pants just look at my Sig line, he dropped that one on me on accident, I think he secretly works at a fortune cookie factory on the side.

  7. #27
    Leopard Printer Mr_White's Avatar
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    I'm glad to hear you guys both had the same questions. I was seriously expecting someone to come back with a pretty simple answer that I was missing and then I would say Well Duh. Maybe they still will!

    ---

    karmapolice, that wisdom just came to me, probably because of how much I love Panda Express.
    Technical excellence supports tactical preparedness
    Lord of the Food Court
    http://www.gabewhitetraining.com

  8. #28
    I'm also really glad other, sharper people had the same questions.


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  9. #29
    Perhaps not to him, but as presented, it seems confusing/complicated.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  10. #30
    I'd be interested in hearing the intent of the factory slide to frame ratio rule in addition to the long slide rule. Particularly given that he does not specifically kibosh RDS. If it isn't unrealistic for a regular dude(ette) to roll with an RDS daily, why is it so to roll a G34 or a P30L?

    I get if the intent is to reduce "gaming" the course. However, we all know at least a few pretty good shooters that carry a long slide pistol, concealed, every damned day.

    I know it is picking nits, but it just seems silly to me to tell a student that no: you cannot shoot the G17k you carry every day and shot the rest of the class with. You need to grab your spare G17 out of your bag for the test.

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