Pistol Caliber Carbine

[Bummy425]

Transitioning north, when I stop shooting USPSA matches to fall again, so I figured I would put a summary together for this PCC thread.

Equipment:

My USPSA friends call USPSA Pistol Caliber Carbine division, "open long," and there is probably some truth to that. I have spent the season tinkering with gear, and settled on what works best for me. I have experimented with a Colt 6951, the JP GMR-13, Sig MPX, and a custom AR-9 blow back, built by a very talented, USPSA shooter living down in Yuma. If I wanted to shoot factory ammo, and would put up with the risk of getting a reliable specimen, I think the MPX is the way to go, as it shoots so soft with full power ammo. The caveat is that product is still immature, and in my experience, suffering from various small part issues (gas port, BCG, firing pin and firing pin springs). My favorite PCC is the side charger, blow back AR-9, combined with ammo loaded for that gun (hence "open long"). I am running the Leupold LCO, a Crimson Trace CMR-206 green laser, Taccom3G magwell, Hipertouch 24C trigger, and an Odin Works Atlas compensator. I have been using an Acme bullet, 135 grain "red bullet," over 2.8 grains of Tite Group, for a very soft shooting, 134 power factor load.

Here is version #2:

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Attachment 16153


Training:

While I have always self identified as a rifleman, a dispassionate analysis would show that I have spent 100 times as much effort on pistol shooting for the last ten to twenty years, only dragging rifles out for hunting season, defense around bears, and very intermittent practice. PCC changed that, since I was able to shoot the carbine with 9mm in pistol bays on pistol targets (especially steel). Since December, I estimate I have spent 35% of my time shooting the carbine, and it has definitely sharpened up my long gun shooting. Besides improving my long gun shooting, I believe PCC has definitely helped my pistol shooting, as shooting at carbine speeds has helped me learn to process faster, and that has translated to faster pistol shooting.


Competition:

PCC seems to continue to build in popularity, and monthly, it seems like there are more PCC shooters at matches. Something I experienced, and I routinely hear from others, is that PCC is crazy fun to shoot at matches. That is contagious.

After shooting Production, and Carry Optics prior to the 140mm magazine change, I was in a ten round world. By comparison, PCC felt like going to the big kid's table, and I really enjoyed running with the Open shooters. I got to shoot two area matches in PCC, and finished mid 70's percentage against the match winner and PCC national champion, Max Leograndis. Stand and shoot, I do significantly better than on field courses. This past weekend, I got to finish my PCC season at an all classifier match, with stand and shoot stages, and I really crushed it, which made for a great way to end the season and my PCC experiment.

Looking forward to a change of scenery and cooler temperatures, carrying a 14 inch Benelli stuffed full of Brenneke slugs, my HK pistols with .45 Super, and practicing for Carry Optics next fall with the Walther Q5.

Any inside knowledge or rumors on the new trigger from Sig for the MPX? Were you running the stock trigger or something else?

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

[GJM]

Any inside knowledge or rumors on the new trigger from Sig for the MPX? Were you running the stock trigger or something else?

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

Don't know about trigger rumors. I was using the Timney Targa, but Taran Butler and other good shooters were using the Hipertouch 24C.

[MGW]

GJM have you seen anyone successfully running the Scorpion in PCC? Since mine was free I'm debating using it to finance something like an MPX. I've run a lot of rounds through an AR platform and I'm not sure I want to mess with learning something as different as the Scorpion.

[GJM]

GJM have you seen anyone successfully running the Scorpion in PCC? Since mine was free I'm debating using it to finance something like an MPX. I've run a lot of rounds through an AR platform and I'm not sure I want to mess with learning something as different as the Scorpion.

Around here, the only higher end shooter I have seen with the CZ was a CZ sponsored shooter.

I hear the high cap mags (OEM plus extensions) are not fully reliable, and not sure the parts hold up to modification. They are probably fine as original, for modest use.

For timmie pursuits, I have been messing with the HK, and that is awesome for that sort of thing.

[ranger]

Sunday was another "outlaw" PCC style match at our local NW GA club. Beautiful day with ok turnout - everyone must have been at the NRA event in Atlanta. Several of PCC's were SIG MPX that had been SBR'd - one Gen 1 (he got us hooked) and three Gen 2. Multiple AR9 variants. One SBR AR in 300 BO (again, no completely following formal PCC rules). One MP5 clone. No issues with the PCC weapons noted. 4 stages and about 90 rounds - match set up by an IDPA shooter so stages had an IDPA flavor and IDPA scoring used. I used my SIG MPX Gen 2 SBR with C More dot and SIG folding "skeleton" stock plus cheap Brown Bear 115 FMJ - no issues yet. I will note that all the shooters except the 300BO were shooting factory or factory remanufactured ammo so the "full power" 9mm may help the reliability.

[GJM]

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...-image-leaked/

[rob_s]

Around here, the only higher end shooter I have seen with the CZ was a CZ sponsored shooter.

So, then, fully capable just not perceived as the kool kid gun?

I've always wondered about such things. For every gun that the masses decide isn't competitive or the "one to have" somewhere you wi d up finding a sponsored shooter using one to great succes. Or, even better, some nobody wins a national title with one (Stegger and his Beretta come to mind. While they are all the hipster hotness today, at the time people thought that the berretta was a born loser).

Is the scorpion issue just one of thensponsored shooter having access to ferry-picked samples and support, or is there something inherent in the design of the gun that makes it a non-starter?

I'll be honest, it's a little disappointing to see that PCC seems to be going the way of $-gun wherein it's all about the equipment race and who's fancy-branded stick-ons people can add to feel "competitive".

[ranger]

rob_s - I disagree. I have been involved with competitive shooting since the 1980s. My observation is that competition has been the crucible that drove weapon and weapon accessories - specifically optics - to a new level. I was shooting USPSA in the 1980s and watched the progression from "traditional" single stack 1911 in 45, to SS 1911 with a single port comp, to 1911 38 Super with multi-port comps, to the first dots, through the S-I/Para with dots and so on. In the case of handguns and rifles, "racing" truly improves the breed.

As an Infantry officer, I saw the technology (and techniques) move to the weapons that my unit and I used in Iraq - I doubt that we would have Aimpoints and other optics on our service weapons without the crucible of competition.

In my experience, there is a certain amount of "cool" in choices for competition but ultimately, if it does not work, it gets discarded. We are in a world of reliable pistol and rifle choices due to competition. Think back to the 70s and 80s and count the pistols suitable for competition, duty, and carry compared to today. During the recent military and LE pistol trials, there were probably 4 systems that would be just fine - that was not true in the past.

[GJM]

Seems like the only people not positive about PCC, are the ones not shooting it. I see an incredible amount of enthusiasm for PCC from other USPSA shooters.

I grabbed a 6920 yesterday, and did some shooting at 50-200 yards. Even though these are not PCC distances, it is amazing what a season of USPSA PCC does to spiff up your long gun shooting.

[ReverendMeat]

Put some rounds through a Nordic Components PCC the other day. Not very often something new comes out that makes me go "hey, this is kinda neat" but the Nordic was really cool. Bolt locks back on empty which I think is unique for PCCs that use Glock mags. Functioned 100% with freedom munitions, Glock factory mags + ETS mags. Though for a $1300 gun I'd expect a not-garbage trigger.