What is "fighting with a gun"?
The above phrase has become the de rigueur descriptor in AARs and recommendations when attempting to make the point of differentiating from "square range" or "competition/gun game" training.
But what does that phrase actually mean in a training environment? What does training to "fight with a gun" look like compared to training that does not claim to teach you to "fight with a gun"?
Last edited by Jay Cunningham; 12-04-2011 at 12:34 PM.
For me, that's learning skills that are needed for a fight that aren't needed for a shooting sport. Malfunction issues, one handed pistol manipulations, scanning, pre and post fight issues, legal aspects of the use of deadly force, mind set, etc.
+1Originally Posted by phil_in_cs
This one's gonna' be interesting.
Good question Jay!
I've seen it used in so many ways that I don't pay attention anymore, it has become a cliche to me.
Perhaps the most appropriate ones are those who try to imitate and cultivate mindset, behavior and tactics that are expected to win a firefight. There are obvious questions about instructor's credentials, real life experience and generalizability of content.
Then there are ones who teach "correct" technical skills that one is supposed to use in real life engagements, as opposed to competition etc. I always have a question why not to call it a manipulations class, though.
And then I've seen instructors who can't shoot and just call if fighting because it is clearly ain't marksmanship class of any kind...
Training to "fight with a gun" involves emphasizing manipulating the gun in a manner that promotes heads up awareness and integrating the handgun into an overall defensive skills program.
Basically training the mind to see things from a fighting perspective in addition to a pure shooting skills perspective.
Examples are:
- Performing manipulations at eye level rather than at chest or belt buckle level. These methods aren't only faster and more positive, they also help you maintain awareness of your surroundings.
- Drawing the gun up to the pecs and then punching out rather than in a straight line from holster to extension. Basically retention position "press out" vs. pure competition speed IPSC draw.
- Immediate action drills vs. the old aim in a safe direction and wait 30 seconds before assessing a malfunction.
- Shooting on the move and from compromised positions.
I don't know what it means in the context of AARs and such. The context I have understood it in is from my old Israeli instructor and it is similar to what JodyH said. His explanation was they were teaching you "fighting with a gun" as opposed to gunfighting or shooting a gun. The difference was that fighting with a gun meant that one looked as the entire self-protection and personal security paradigm as a unit, and using the handgun was one part of that combative system. Thus one would focus on the handgun within the context of an overall fighting system rather than just its use in the gunfight itself.
"PLAN FOR YOUR TRAINING TO BE A REFLECTION OF REAL LIFE INSTEAD OF HOPING THAT REAL LIFE WILL BE A REFLECTION OF YOUR TRAINING!"
Some of the previous comments remind me of a quote I once read:
"The first rule of gun fighting is, 'be a gunfighter.' Some people think it's 'have a gun,' but that's wrong. If you want to win the fight you have to be a fighter. Weapons don't win fights; fighters do." - Shane Steinkamp
That's kind of how I look at things... Will this make me a better fighter, or a better shooter? Two different skill sets that can be trained, and also intergrated together.
Have you had training that was *supposed* to be "fighting with a gun" where the above did not get covered?
Tongue in cheek mode/
"Fighting with a gun" can have three meanings:
1. Pistol Whipping.
2. Fighting for control over trigger.
3. Managing recoil.
Tongue in cheek mode off/
Sorry just too tempting
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