Any benefit to a "recoil training pistol"?

[ST911]

The standard pressure Lawman 115 (53650) isn't the light training ball many others in that weight class are. It can be a little brisk (and concussive, yes) for many in small guns, and it will more reliably cycle a wonky semi-auto or SMG than other 115s will. I find the 53650 closer to the 124 +P GDHP than the Lawman 124 (53651) is, but not equal. I, too find the 147 (53620) to be softer shooting than the 115.

[GRV]

I have a bunch of Lawman 115, that has little stickers on it, saying it is loaded to +P pressure.

In any event, perceived recoil is partly pure power factor and partly concussion. All things equal, 115 will have more concussion in 9mm than 147. Lawman 147 feels much softer shooting to me than Lawman 115.

If you think Lawman only feels about like 124+P Gold Dot, and that isn't snappier than what you normally shoot, I am not sure what to say.

Interesting, can you post a picture of that? I've shot about 20k rounds of Lawman 115gr over the past 2 years and I don't think I've ever seen that. If there's a hotter plain Lawman, I want it

Sorry, I think we're talking past each other a little. I'm on the same page; I like Lawman 115gr a lot and definitely think it is more robust as far as training cartridges go, closer to Gold Dot 124gr than anything else I've tried, and that both of those are definitely snappier than shitty generic 9mm training ball.

I agree that power factor is only part of the game. I'm curious, how do you find Lawman 115 to compare to a USPSA major load in handling? My thought was that despite it being snappy for 9mm training ammo, that a typical USPSA .40 load would still kick more, but I don't have any experience.

The standard pressure Lawman 115 (53650) isn't the light training ball many others in that weight class are. It can be a little brisk (and concussive, yes) for many in small guns, and it will more reliably cycle a wonky semi-auto or SMG than other 115s will. I find the 53650 closer to the 124 +P GDHP than the Lawman 124 (53651) is, but not equal. I, too find the 147 (53620) to be softer shooting than the 115.

That matches up very well with things that I've observed and things I've been told.

[GJM]

The Lawman with those stickers is a few states away, but I will try to remember to snap a photo next time I am there.

Very hard to compare 115+P in a G19 to a much heavier weighing 2011 .40 with special major match loads -- but the 2011 is easier to shoot.

I think it is all relative. With dry firing, it is easier to cheat your grip compared to live fire. With 130 PF reloads it is easier to cheat your grip than with Gold Dot 124+P or Lawman 115. A Glock 23 ups the grip required. Further grip required with .45 Super. Smith 329 with Garrett, more grip and pain yet.

[vcdgrips]

Late to the party...again. With the exception of Gunsite in 2007, my standard training regimen is to shoot my G35 in the morning ( 180 G Lawman), thru lunch, a bit beyond and then shift to an otherwise identical G34. (various mostly 115 grain fodder and 4.3-4.4 of 231 w/ 124 g Berry or Rainier) Some of the drivers to that pattern were:
1. Ammo availability
2. Learning "recoil control" to apply to the G34
3. Such application made me a better shooter on various tests/quals. using the G34

Bottom Line: IMHO, there is some benefit to training with a higher recoiling pistol and then transitioning to a similar , less recoiling platform.

YMMV

[Caballoflaco]

What does the collective think about Winchester nato 124gr compared to gold dot +p 124 and the lawman 115 recoil wise.

Edited for clarity.

[PNWTO]

What does the collective think about Winchester nato 124gr compared to gold dot +p 124 and the lawman 115?

Don't have the exact pressures/numbers off the cuff, but the NATO load is not as warm as +P loadings. Plus, the NATO is a FMJ, so it is range ammo for me.

[Paul Sharp]

Is there any benefit to having a pistol with significantly more recoil that your primary carry gun, for training purposes?

Previously I thought there was a benefit to learning recoil management through shooting stouter calibers. It seemed to make sense as going from a 10mm to a 9mm made the 9mm feel like a 22.

I think it was around 2009 I started to study kinesthetic learning as it applies to shooting and I realized I was doing it all wrong. I had used this for other skills in the past but never thought applying the same approach to shooting. Shortly after that I developed the exercises I use now to tune up my recoil control and it works much better. The problem with shooting a hotter round is the firing cycle of the pistol happens too fast for us to get any meaningful feedback. Grip it harder is good advice, but grip it harder in the right places while directing pressure in the optimal directions is better advice. Most folks learn that through a series of kinesthetically learning based exercises.

[BaiHu]

Previously I thought there was a benefit to learning recoil management through shooting stouter calibers. It seemed to make sense as going from a 10mm to a 9mm made the 9mm feel like a 22.

I think it was around 2009 I started to study kinesthetic learning as it applies to shooting and I realized I was doing it all wrong. I had used this for other skills in the past but never thought applying the same approach to shooting. Shortly after that I developed the exercises I use now to tune up my recoil control and it works much better. The problem with shooting a hotter round is the firing cycle of the pistol happens too fast for us to get any meaningful feedback. Grip it harder is good advice, but grip it harder in the right places while directing pressure in the optimal directions is better advice. Most folks learn that through a series of kinesthetically learning based exercises.

Do you mind going into some of these exercises?

[Paul Sharp]

Do you mind going into some of these exercises?

I don't mind at all. There are a bunch of clips I posted on the locking elbows threads. A guy posted 14 or 15 clips on YouTube and Mark Luell posted 6 or so. I posted links to those. I think those break it down pretty well. Let me know if those help and if not I'll try to add whatever is missing.

[BaiHu]

I don't mind at all. There are a bunch of clips I posted on the locking elbows threads. A guy posted 14 or 15 clips on YouTube and Mark Luell posted 6 or so. I posted links to those. I think those break it down pretty well. Let me know if those help and if not I'll try to add whatever is missing.

Thanks. I lost sight of that thread.

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