Dealing with the big guy.

[Dagga Boy]

Now that we are back on track.....let me add a few things that pile on to what Cecil was talking about. Distance....as a generally bigger person (even at lower weights, I have "retard strong" leg strength), I tried to get locked up, especially with smaller opponents (always seemed to be drunk 140 pound dudes wanted to kick the big cops ass). Also, unlike dojo and "training environments" when an opponent with 50-100 pounds on you drives you into concrete, asphalt, walls, coffee tables and television sets (just using my favorites) where you are the cushion to break their fall......it will not be like hitting a mat. I knocked a lot of folks out on full drive takedowns onto asphalt. That is how big guys use weapons....the world is a weapon with mass enhanced velocity.
Also, exactly what Cecil said about Beltline height is critical.....now most folks my size don't get this....except I have insanely short legs for my height (less than 30" inseam"). I am really a tall dwarf. My BJJ instructors always loved working the challenge of my build as my triangle was so low to the ground, yet I had a 6 foot 5 inch upper body length. I would use my low Beltline often to get under folks with my hips.
Just trying to add some help for those look for how to counter larger folks. I had to employ a bunch of this at times myself in dealing with huge folks. Weirdly, it wasn't often, as it seems when the folks who played "the line" in football meet on the street with no pads and helmets, they understand that everyone is getting hurt and my fights with much bigger folks tended to be when they were impaired.

[UNM1136]

Good stuff.

Just want to point out to LE in uniform, anyone who carries traditional strong side, practice these throws on your opposite gun side. I do all these left hip as my gun is usual on my right hip.

My Japanese jujutsu training was back in college, about 4 years before I became a cop. I took it to the black belt level and then never really did any more with it. I fell into the "martial arts will get you killed in a street fight". Until I had been through a dozen or so street fights. Then I learned that most of the guys out there are clowns, and rarely will you run into a true street fighter. My martial arts experience taught me to work joints, and more importantly to transition to another technique when the one I was trying didn't work. This was background to my reply to Voodoo_man.

I almost never worry about what side my opponent is on, because I rarely have that much control over it. The first time I took down a nekked mental patient, she was on the wrong side of me, but I had to work her anyway. That whole confrontation I was worried about her grabbing my pistol, so I made sure she couldn't reach it. I controlled upper limbs as much as I could and then got a good, low stable entry and absolutely buried my pistol into her gut, and took her down.

On a couple of scraps since them I found that if I am working their arms, my pistol is safer buried in the person's gut. When I am entangled, hands are everywhere, and moving to other places almost as fast as I can perceive where they are. I tend to fight by feel. If some one slips a hand and I have to scrable to grab it and they are on my weak side, thier hand will invariably fall toward my gun. If they are on my strong side, they have to make more space to make a grab.I am not perfect, and realize that someday someone is going to cream me, and possibly get my gun. But so far, this has worked for me. If they are on the weak side, my right arm tends to control access to the blaster, until I can control both upper limbs. If they are on my strong side I do my best saran wrap impression, and let their rib cage secure stuff.

I also believe in buying top quality equipment and maintaining it. I don't go over the top with retention on my holsters, but the first time that I notice anything "new" with my carry setup, the gear gets replaced.

My first street sergeant used to say that you aren't a real cop until you had your ass handed to you. 18 years later I still don't qualify. I still get that rookie adrenaline rush right before the fight kicks off, but have never let someone get away that I needed to control, and have not received more than minor "participant trophies".

Just my observations,

pat

[UNM1136]

Now that we are back on track.....let me add a few things that pile on to what Cecil was talking about. Distance....as a generally bigger person (even at lower weights, I have "retard strong" leg strength), I tried to get locked up, especially with smaller opponents (always seemed to be drunk 140 pound dudes wanted to kick the big cops ass). Also, unlike dojo and "training environments" when an opponent with 50-100 pounds on you drives you into concrete, asphalt, walls, coffee tables and television sets (just using my favorites) where you are the cushion to break their fall......it will not be like hitting a mat. I knocked a lot of folks out on full drive takedowns onto asphalt. That is how big guys use weapons....the world is a weapon with mass enhanced velocity.
Also, exactly what Cecil said about Beltline height is critical.....now most folks my size don't get this....except I have insanely short legs for my height (less than 30" inseam"). I am really a tall dwarf. My BJJ instructors always loved working the challenge of my build as my triangle was so low to the ground, yet I had a 6 foot 5 inch upper body length. I would use my low Beltline often to get under folks with my hips.
Just trying to add some help for those look for how to counter larger folks. I had to employ a bunch of this at times myself in dealing with huge folks. Weirdly, it wasn't often, as it seems when the folks who played "the line" in football meet on the street with no pads and helmets, they understand that everyone is getting hurt and my fights with much bigger folks tended to be when they were impaired.

D,

I agree completely with the environment. When I was doing JJ, I used to tell my TKD buddies that like them, my goal was kick my opponent in the face; I was just going to do it after I had hit them with the biggest thing I had available: the planet. I consistentenly use the weapons of opportunity you mentioned. I have taken people down and used them to pad my fall, I have tried takedowns, and failed and had to keep fighting, I have taken people down, and landed under them, and I have been dropped myself. Mindset helps, and so does haveing other friends with badges.

I also have a 36 inch inseam, and have to really work to get low on people, or conversly to artificially raise thier beltline. I learned not to fall in love with a technique, and readily abandon ones that don't work, transitioning to something else as soon as I realize what I am doing is not working.

Recently a retired Canine Handler opined on fighting and whatnot, and the more I think about what he said, the more I think I agree (this applies here, and to my reply to Voodoo_man". In a nutshell, he said that the guys that fight will look for setups, and techniques, and counter techniques, and have thier favorites, and keep returning to them, all trying to find victory. Cops will walk into a fight assuming that they will win, then they find a way to make it happen. And they do, 90%+ of the time. Very Sun Tzu.

pat

[UNM1136]

oops, double tap

[Robert Mitchum]

JMO .. you have more chance of getting into a fight with a little shit head trying to make a name for himself than a big dude.
I had very few problems with big dudes in my life .. my definition of a big dude is someone bigger than me .. others will have a different gauge of big to them.
In my prime I was 6 foot 4 1/2" 275 pounds with a flat stomach .. guys 6 foot 6 " and above feel big to me.
Strength is also subjected depending on where you hang out .. I thought I was big until I did some pro wrestling .. talk about Giants .. some where true giants.
Working as a Bouncer .. Bounty Hunter .. Corrections Officer. I have had a few fights in my life .... I never looked at size and worried about the outcome in a fight.
I will say Samoans with size are a total Nightmare in force on force encounters.

[MickAK]

I think dealing with big men is one of those things that you can't really properly train for. A good second knuckle fist to the throat or eye is a game changer. There is no way to train to reliably deliver that strike. Just unsafe. One of the many reasons why Krav Maga went to the wayside. Still, it's my plan when somebody has a weight/reach advantage. I think it comes down to people that have trained to be on the wrong side of pain/breathing/expectations versus people that are just expecting a normal confrontation.

[spelingmastir]

The whole point of a martial art is to overcome size with skill. BJJ has shown itself to be an effective art in doing so. You'll often find that the smaller guys that have trained for a while are the most technical because they are forced to be and can't rely on attributes. If I were an 8 foot gorilla I wouldn't need BJJ; I'd just bop people on the head.

[Beendare]

I'm a fairly big dude....but if I ever was in a street fight [no weapons] there are 2 guys that I would want on my side...and neither one is over a buck fifty.

One guy is maybe 5' 7" mixed martial art champ all over Asia and the other was a Jiu Jitsu/wrestler. i've seen both of those guys devastate much larger- and multiple opponents.

There is hope for your son. Its not the dog in the fight....but the fight in the dog.

[Dagga Boy]

I'm a fairly big dude....but if I ever was in a street fight [no weapons] there are 2 guys that I would want on my side...and neither one is over a buck fifty.

One guy is maybe 5' 7" mixed martial art champ all over Asia and the other was a Jiu Jitsu/wrestler. i've seen both of those guys devastate much larger- and multiple opponents.

There is hope for your son. Its not the dog in the fight....but the fight in the dog.

Not trying to be a complete jerk, but...have you seen either one of those guys with an experienced 250-350 pounder in a confined environment on the street with no rules? Having been latched on to some serious monsters in the past....things get a bit different when you have a carotid set and you get driven backwards though a wall and the guy is trying to stuff you between the studs. That was me at 230 pounds and in good fighting shape. I had to actually pierce his wrists through skin cuffing the guy because his wrists were bigger than the cuffs. He did compliment me getting him into cuffs, as he said it took 14 officers from a neighboring agency AFTER he had been shot (not by the cops). These folks walk among us, and stepping through a knee my work on Bubba, but will likely not go so well on a guy who as played defensive tackle and has seen that move before.

Now, I have seen some small guys who are not folks I ever want to screw with on purpose, but it is the level of brutality and a mayhem switch that is what makes them good as opposed to martial arts skill. They are two different things for two very different environments.

[blues]

Not trying to be a complete jerk, but...snip...

The biggest and scariest guy I ever had to take down, (at least twice my weight and a foot taller), was someone I thankfully didn't have to be steamrolled by. I threw him the cuffs, (or flexicuffs, it's been a while), and told him to put them on and snugly as I really didn't want to have to shoot him which I would happily do if he decided to press the issue and charge me.

He took it in stride, thankfully, put 'em on and we awaited transport. It could have gone much, much worse.