Dealing with the big guy.

[Cecil Burch]

Given these types of challenges, and ignoring trivial and preemptive "kick 'em in the Jimmies" responses, how have you been successful dealing with semi-skilled or skilled 'monsters' (relative to your size) in the dojo? Or perhaps in the field, if that is your experience.

Distance can be your friend. Do not let the bigger guy attach, keep arcing to get outside his squared hips (i.e. he is bladed to you while you are squared to him), fast power shots that do some damage.

All those are good plans, but are probably the hardest part of a fight to pull off. Even if you have ample open room with a flat and even surface, it is hard to keep someone away for long. The other advantage the bigger guy has, and one that the "combatives/grab their jewels" types fail to mention, is generally he also has a longer reach making it easier for him to grab on.

And few people have a real understanding of distance and the ability to maintain it. In my Close Contact Handgun course, my co-instructor and I spend about 8 hours teaching and drilling that very skill set, and then we spend the last 4-5 hours of the class with the students under true pressure and that skill falls apart instantly. The most common comments in the debrief are "I can't believe he got that close that fast" or "I didn't realize he was that close". Instructors who don't respect the amount of work it takes to impart that skill are deceiving their students.

Another issue is that the bigger guy can usually take more damage and/or the smaller person has a tougher time developing enough power to hurt the bigger dood. That is something else that needs to be taken into account, and is also one of the reasons that some of us who teach this stuff have been slightly de-emphasizing striking skills in our course work, usually so we can spend more time on things like movement, footwork, and distance control.

One advantage the smaller guy has that none of the "street fighting" teachers ever teach (because they don't have a clue that it exists) is that when it does go to an entanglement, the smaller guy's belt line is lower than the bigger guy, and so he does have a leverage advantage, IF HE KNOWS WHAT TO DO THERE.

To sum up, this is a sucky situation, and it requires a boatload of sweat equity to even come close to developing a real functional response.

[BaiHu]

@Cecil Burch
I think this is the most important conversation to have. Distance and perception = time. My major emphasis with students as young as 4 and up is footwork, distancing and how they relate to time. When you have time, you have time to come up with a better plan, recruit people, add a force multiplier, etc. Without time and therefore distance, one's ability to perceive things as they are and not how we assume them to be can be a major cause of mistaken tactics/strategy.

You and Craig introducing force multipliers to me as a means to reevaluate my practice and business has been huge. I was always interested in guns/knives, but my teacher was less so. Thankfully b/w TPI and PF I was able to link up with you guys, your knowledge base and your students to help shift my focus. For that and your classes, I thank you both.

[SLG]

I am small and have never fought a guy my size or smaller. After almost 30 years of striking arts and real fights, I came to the same conclusions as Cecil (just not as quickly, so now I'm playing catch-up), which is why I now train BJJ.

As far as beating bigger guys, a couple of times I just got lucky. A couple of times my partners and teammates helped out. The rest of the time I won because of weapons. You kind of have to be a moron to choose to fight a bigger guy and not pull a weapon. Weapons, and their early and effective use in a fight is what wins. Period. No weapons? That's where I'll have to take my chances with BJJ and my striking. IMHO, there are no "go-to" moves when fighting unknown people, let alone bigger ones. They dictate what you can do and what you can't do. My "go to" is to try and flank them and end up behind them. Then use whatever weapon is appropriate until they can't fight anymore. Doesn't often work out quite that way.

[BaiHu]

Distance can be your friend. Do not let the bigger guy attach, keep arcing to get outside his squared hips (i.e. he is bladed to you while you are squared to him), fast power shots that do some damage.

SNIP

One advantage the smaller guy has that none of the "street fighting" teachers ever teach (because they don't have a clue that it exists) is that when it does go to an entanglement, the smaller guy's belt line is lower than the bigger guy, and so he does have a leverage advantage, IF HE KNOWS WHAT TO DO THERE.

To sum up, this is a sucky situation, and it requires a boatload of sweat equity to even come close to developing a real functional response.

SNIP
IMHO, there are no "go-to" moves when fighting unknown people, let alone bigger ones. They dictate what you can do and what you can't do. My "go to" is to try and flank them and end up behind them. Then use whatever weapon is appropriate until they can't fight anymore. Doesn't often work out quite that way.

What's fascinating is how quickly this becomes the gun discussion. If your job is to deal with big/bad guys, then you have more tools, but more responsibilities. If you're a civilian, then you have less tools and less responsibility. SLG, you have to deal with a big guy for your job; you may have more tools from communications, to back up, to batbelt, but I assume your job charges you with the responsibility. On the other hand, there are limited scenarios that I, or any other civilian, has to deal with anyone.

No one calls me to show up, but if I choose to show up or I'm forced to show up (targeted assault) and I successfully extract myself in whatever way legally possible, then I'm good. In both cases, there is no easy answer (other than do the work), but if there is a baseline answer, I'd argue that it's awareness first and footwork/mobility second, which leads us to Craig's apt statement of staying conscious.

[blues]

...but if there is a baseline answer, I'd argue that it's awareness first and footwork/mobility second, which leads us to Craig's apt statement of staying conscious.

Reminds me of my old sensei Alex Sternberg's admonition that "good karate" is anything that either extricates you from a situation or wins the day. (He wasn't so much a stickler for form or particular techniques in kumite but he was pretty demanding when it came to kata.)

[BaiHu]

Reminds me of my old sensei Alex Sternberg's admonition that "good karate" is anything that either extricates you from a situation or wins the day.

I didn't read the whole thread so I'm not sure if you mean "staying conscious" (as in awareness) or remaining conscious...as both are obviously vital and inextricably bound together.

The latter: remaining conscious.

[blues]

The latter: remaining conscious.

I actually just edited my post as I kept thinking that it was too obvious, (and I must be a dolt), and that he must be referring to awareness. Obviously, if we don't remain conscious it's game, set, match. Anyway, I'll opt for conscious and conscious for the win. (Or at least for the best chance of winning.)

[Robert Mitchum]

He would be loads of fun in a street fight. Sébastien Chabal


Werner Günthör 6 foot 7" .... 275 pounds In his prime



Taylor Lewan 4.87 Seconds ... 40 yard dash .... 6 foot 7 inches 309 Pounds

[Cecil Burch]

@Cecil Burch
I think this is the most important conversation to have. Distance and perception = time. My major emphasis with students as young as 4 and up is footwork, distancing and how they relate to time. When you have time, you have time to come up with a better plan, recruit people, add a force multiplier, etc. Without time and therefore distance, one's ability to perceive things as they are and not how we assume them to be can be a major cause of mistaken tactics/strategy.

You and Craig introducing force multipliers to me as a means to reevaluate my practice and business has been huge. I was always interested in guns/knives, but my teacher was less so. Thankfully b/w TPI and PF I was able to link up with you guys, your knowledge base and your students to help shift my focus. For that and your classes, I thank you both.

You are more than welcome. Sometimes I feel like this is a calling. May sound like hubris, but it's true.

[Duces Tecum]

As far as beating bigger guys . . . I won because of weapons. You kind of have to be a moron to choose to fight a bigger guy and not pull a weapon. Weapons, and their early and effective use in a fight is what wins. Period. No weapons? That's where I'll have to take my chances with BJJ and my striking. IMHO, there are no "go-to" moves when fighting unknown people, let alone bigger ones. They dictate what you can do and what you can't do. My "go to" is to try and flank them and end up behind them. Then use whatever weapon is appropriate until they can't fight anymore. Doesn't often work out quite that way.

There is much truth in this paragraph.