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Thread: Dealing with the big guy.

  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo_man View Post
    Yep, I thought the big girl is hot. You got me....
    Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard. Snarky and easily butt hurt. Favorite animal is the Cape Buffalo....likely indicative of a personality disorder.
    "If I had a grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton".

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by 45dotACP View Post
    By gawd that slam tho
    Marcelo is a different breed, Ricco never had a chance and I think he knew it. The beauty of this fight to me is the way the "small guy" controlled the whole fight from a "disadvantaged position", he controlled outside factors such as the crowd, and then the mental dominance leading to Ricco losing his composure. Marcelo built his game off the arm drag and Ricco couldn't do anything to avoid it, even knowing it was coming.

    Since this thread started I've been running the notion of dealing with this question by using a triad composed of the characteristics of strength, skill, and size. Absent though is speed which I am having trouble reconciling the fact that it isn't there... I have been thinking about how different levels of each affect the whole in regards to an opponent. It's merely a mental exercise but this fight Southnarc posted is a really great example of high skill defeating the sum of the other two qualities taken in the context of my model. Of course we don't always get to choose our opponent, but remember Ricco didn't either and Marcelo went absolute knowing he was one of the smaller players in the brackets.

    This isn't a real fight of course, but I still think a lot can be taken from this fight and used in preparation for conflict. For me it's the complete mastery of technique and willingness to test it at the highest level against the best. This should be a familiar concept if we're honest about things....
    Last edited by Shootingrn; 01-09-2017 at 11:42 PM. Reason: Typo and added thought

  3. #103
    I'm not in anyway saying that size and strength are not serious weapons. I'm also not as well versed in the theory or history or practice as Southnarc and Cecil, but look at what Royce and Rickson have done against much bigger guys. There may have still been a few rules, but not many.

    Also, here is one of my favorites, fo rthose of you not familiar with Master Sauer. There is a longer clip out there if you prefer.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEp01vrt8bE
    Easily concealable with no sporting purpose.

  4. #104
    In a pure technique game with rules....size may not matter. Especially, in cases where the rules ban things that really hurt people. I look at things like the NFL as a good example. In some situations, size is a positive, in others, size is a negative. The goal is to maximize those situations in your favor. Like everything we relate here, it comes down to actual tactics applied. If you are small, and try to match a larger opponent in strength, you will lose based on poor tactics. As a larger person, you avoid the endurance and speed game (quickness and speed are very different). I will use a short clip as an example of a strategy I have used a lot in the field. Prior to the MMA revolution, every kid I ever dealt with in many gang areas boxed, and some were exceptionally good. They sucked when confined, sucked on the ground and did not really know what to do when clinched.....thus, I was big on pressing them into walls, on the ground, work clinched, and stay out of their punching range, or at least take their striking ability seriously and defend it when closing.
    Tank Abbott is a flaming ass, did not always do well after a few minutes in the ring, BUT he was bull strong and talking to cops from his area, he was very good at beating collegiate lineman to a pulp in street fights (that he would provoke). Tank played the big man game well early. Take protected punishment going in, get your weaker opponent confined and exert a ton of force. That IS the big guy strategy and should not be taken lightly, BUT the world of MMA and particularly the BJJ based fighters have worked hard developing strategies to offset size and pure power. While Tank was found to be beatable in the ring, think about being confined with this guy in his prime in a bathroom fight.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n_JwAK-Ollg
    Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard. Snarky and easily butt hurt. Favorite animal is the Cape Buffalo....likely indicative of a personality disorder.
    "If I had a grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton".

  5. #105
    As an added.....if you have more time, here is five minutes of how I modeled what I did because, I have usually had a similar build to Tank. This is not a "my Art is better than yours"....it isn't. It is a primer for guys like me to use, and folks to defend against. Tank is always driving when he has gas in the tank. Watch him spread his base to use his gut weight. He is trying to always keep that weight pressing on his opponent to either confine them on the ground or the cage. When he cannot do that or is trapped, he puts that strong base under his opponents and sends them airborne. Short legs and leg strength allow for a lot of room to press folks northward and use gravity to enhance the effect of the solid objects. Ground and pound....size "can" make up for technique. Smaller folks need to be technical strikers. Powerful folks can make up for technique with power. Many of the strikes in the montage are not well delivered good technical strikes....yet are stunning the opponent into a state where he can capitalize. Again, this is academic. You want to figure out how to defend against a big strong opponent, this is a primer of what a big strong actual street fighter is going to do. With rules and a ring and rounds.....Guys like Tank are very beatable. Get into it with one of these with no rules in between some parked cars in a parking lot, in a bathroom, a bar, or in a grocery store aisle, and these folks are very tough and they are working in their happy place.
    Big folks, whether fat, strong, or a combo of both are used to working with that weight and where it is at everyday. If they are smart, they use it when they fight. That is often an experience thing. Gigantic fat ass obese folks tend to just be "big", and will often be easily beaten with attacking their lack of mobility. Reasonably athletic, and functioning big folks are different. Size and training can be a big benefit.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW9Ixh5HIjQ
    Last edited by Dagga Boy; 01-10-2017 at 12:03 PM.
    Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard. Snarky and easily butt hurt. Favorite animal is the Cape Buffalo....likely indicative of a personality disorder.
    "If I had a grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton".

  6. #106
    Site Supporter Paul Sharp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLG View Post
    I'm not in anyway saying that size and strength are not serious weapons. I'm also not as well versed in the theory or history or practice as Southnarc and Cecil, but look at what Royce and Rickson have done against much bigger guys. There may have still been a few rules, but not many.

    Also, here is one of my favorites, fo rthose of you not familiar with Master Sauer. There is a longer clip out there if you prefer.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEp01vrt8bE
    One of the things a lot of folks don't know about those challenge matches is; the opponent set the rules. I was present for at least a dozen at Conan's place in Miami. It went down fairly simple. They say they want to fight. Conan or one of the other upper belts says, okay rules or no rules? I never once saw Conan push for rules. Always, every single time he would do this thing of "maybe we start no rules, if you don't like? We make rules." Once you see a guy stuck under mount with Conan smashing dudes face in with headbutts? You almost wanted to find a way to tell them, hey dude you're going to want some rules. No really, the rules are for your protection not his.
    "There is magic in misery. You need to constantly fail. Always bite off more than you can chew, put yourself in situations where you don't succeed then really analyze why you didn't succeed." - Dean Karnazes www.sbgillinois.com

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Sharp View Post
    One of the things a lot of folks don't know about those challenge matches is; the opponent set the rules. I was present for at least a dozen at Conan's place in Miami. It went down fairly simple. They say they want to fight. Conan or one of the other upper belts says, okay rules or no rules? I never once saw Conan push for rules. Always, every single time he would do this thing of "maybe we start no rules, if you don't like? We make rules." Once you see a guy stuck under mount with Conan smashing dudes face in with headbutts? You almost wanted to find a way to tell them, hey dude you're going to want some rules. No really, the rules are for your protection not his.
    The most famous probably being Rickson Gracie when Yoji Anjo tried to dojo storm him:
    “If we fight for money, I'll stop hitting you when you ask me to. If we fight for honor, I'll stop hitting you when I feel like it.”
    After which they went behind closed doors, until Rickson emerged to show the reporters a bloody and unconscious Anjo.

    Sent from my XT1095 using Tapatalk

  8. #108
    Site Supporter Paul Sharp's Avatar
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    Dealing with the big guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by NickA View Post
    The most famous probably being Rickson Gracie when Yoji Anjo tried to dojo storm him:
    “If we fight for money, I'll stop hitting you when you ask me to. If we fight for honor, I'll stop hitting you when I feel like it.”
    After which they went behind closed doors, until Rickson emerged to show the reporters a bloody and unconscious Anjo.

    Sent from my XT1095 using Tapatalk
    It was awesome to be around Conan's gym during that time in the early 90's. Then in the late 90's early 2000's to train at the SBG in Portland and see the absolute ass beating that would get thrown to dudes that would walk into the gym on MLK Ave in Portland? Most of which was videotaped and later posted on the SBG sites for folks to see for themselves. It was a weird time. I'd be out at Mary's with guys from the gym having a discussion about whether that 300 pound guy that walked in off the street challenged Dan to a "real fight" then was beaten mercilessly... was going to be found dead from a brain bleed meanwhile the next day on some self defense forum I've got guys with less facial scars than my daughters telling me about what happens in a real fight because I'm a sports dude that only fights if there are rules.

    I realize this is a huge derailment so I'll stop with this; it was awesome to be part of that aspect of the game. When guys talk about challenges it's cool to think I was there for a bunch of that stuff. It gave me absolute confidence in my ability to fight anyone, anywhere, under any conditions. You know with absolute certainty that win, lose, or draw that dude is leaving here permanently altered. Although I think it messes with your head because we're living in a world that doesn't function in that fashion.
    Last edited by Paul Sharp; 01-10-2017 at 01:18 PM.
    "There is magic in misery. You need to constantly fail. Always bite off more than you can chew, put yourself in situations where you don't succeed then really analyze why you didn't succeed." - Dean Karnazes www.sbgillinois.com

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Sharp View Post
    It was awesome to be around Conan's gym during that time in the early 90's. Then in the late 90's early 2000's to train at the SBG in Portland and see the absolute ass beating that would get thrown to dudes that would walk into the gym on MLK Ave in Portland? Most of which was videotaped and later posted on the SBG sites for folks to see for themselves. It was a weird time. I'd be out at Mary's with guys from the gym having a discussion about whether that 300 pound guy that walked in off the street challenged Dan to a "real fight" then was beaten mercilessly... was going to be found dead from a brain bleed meanwhile the next day on some self defense forum I've got guys with less facial scars than my daughters telling me about what happens in a real fight because I'm a sports dude that only fights if there are rules.

    I realize this is a huge derailment so I'll stop with this; it was awesome to be part of that aspect of the game. When guys talk about challenges it's cool to think I was there for a bunch of that stuff. It gave me absolute confidence in my ability to fight anyone, anywhere, under any conditions. You know with absolute certainty that win, lose, or draw that dude is leaving here permanently altered. Although I think it messes with your head because we're living in a world that doesn't function in that fashion.
    I think the best thing to come out of that time frame was what "mixed" from sport and street. I spent a fair amount of time in a totally sport Brazilian JiuJitsu club to figure out what I could take, and there was A LOT. Those years of no weight classes, no particular rules against strikes against the heads of grounded opponents, and no rounds were where a ton of hard earned experience and knowledge was learned by both sides. I knew early on I could beat barrio and ghetto boxers. Today's kids are far more into the mixed and grappling sports. Those years proved you had to have a wide range set of skills. I remember the days of screaming at the TV to Dan Severn to "hit him!!!!". Guy was an amazing grappler...with very little striking skill. It was the death of the purist.

    This is a lot like "growing" in the shooting world. I was stupid to have not learned the bullseye and PPC game when I had the chance, because it wasn't street applicable and slow.......I was wrong. Equally, we had failure's with our top PPC and bullseye guys because things happened at a speed you never trained at. What guys like Vickers and many others opened my eyes to was being able to do it all is what is important. Fast, Slow, Precise, and Deliberate. The fighting world is much the same now. You need to understand strikes, leg work, knees and elbows, grappling, ground game, defense...and offense. You need to understand both applying and defending submissions. ALL of these require knowledge to develop tactics that are individually applicable. Just doing what you are good at will bite you. Doing what you are not good at will help develop your ability to use what you are good at and defend what you are not........which circles back to the OP. If small, work against big. If big, work against small. You will see things differently. I learned not to provide an extended arm to a BJJ guy on the bottom......I learned that often enough that I could not straighten my arms out for a year. From that pain, I figured out about using my assets to control legs from the knee to the hip to deal with how I was allowing smaller opponents to leverage. The reality is that somebody is always better than you......and there is no mold for what or who that somebody is. You need to prep for all of them.
    Last edited by Dagga Boy; 01-10-2017 at 02:08 PM.
    Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard. Snarky and easily butt hurt. Favorite animal is the Cape Buffalo....likely indicative of a personality disorder.
    "If I had a grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton".

  10. #110
    \ˈstü-dənt Shellback's Avatar
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    Another example, Rolles Gracie playing with a gorilla.


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