Sig P320 "failed FBI test miserably"

[El Cid]

The things I listed were the only issues I heard.

I suspect Hambo was being snarky about the Glock 17M issue at IMPD. As I understand it the 19M and 17M tested at Quantico did not have that problem.

[Studentofthegun]

Speaking of which, its getting closer to Shot 2017. Any more news on that?

Don't mean to hijack the thread, just hadn't seen anything about it for a while.

[Kirk]

This is an informative thread for me. I agree with GJM, it seems that the primary advantage of Glock is the years of manufacturing and duty experience. I checked out Enos' forum and the 320 is obviously very highly regarded there, and there's a similar thread to this one. A lot of people reporting 10,000-15,000 rounds through theirs with no problem, ALTHOUGH I'm sure the FBI has a much higher round count in their testing im sure. I'm curious if Sig will improve things based on their feedback like Glock, or ignore it and say "fuck you" to actual shooters like S&W with their M&P. The accuracy and trigger I have right now out of mine is excellent to me.

[Lomshek]

This is an informative thread for me. I agree with GJM, it seems that the primary advantage of Glock is the years of manufacturing and duty experience. I checked out Enos' forum and the 320 is obviously very highly regarded there, and there's a similar thread to this one. A lot of people reporting 10,000-15,000 rounds through theirs with no problem, ALTHOUGH I'm sure the FBI has a much higher round count in their testing im sure. I'm curious if Sig will improve things based on their feedback like Glock, or ignore it and say "fuck you" to actual shooters like S&W with their M&P. The accuracy and trigger I have right now out of mine is excellent to me.

Which is hilarious when one realizes that none of these problems are new to the gun world. How to make an accurate handgun or a pistol that reliably extracts and ejects or doesn't wear itself out or springs that last more than 3000 rounds isn't exactly an unknown science.

Of course to make a gun that works as it should would require someone beside a bean counter to decide how a gun is built and God forbid maybe even someone who really understands guns & shooting be in design and R&D.

[Lomshek]

Wow, that's surprising. All of mine shoot 2" at 25.

Not that 2" at 25 is crazy or anything, most modern pistols can do that.

Really?

[BlueDog2009]

This is an informative thread for me. I agree with GJM, it seems that the primary advantage of Glock is the years of manufacturing and duty experience. I checked out Enos' forum and the 320 is obviously very highly regarded there, and there's a similar thread to this one. A lot of people reporting 10,000-15,000 rounds through theirs with no problem, ALTHOUGH I'm sure the FBI has a much higher round count in their testing im sure. I'm curious if Sig will improve things based on their feedback like Glock, or ignore it and say "fuck you" to actual shooters like S&W with their M&P. The accuracy and trigger I have right now out of mine is excellent to me.

I don't really see how Glock does anything with feedback. It took them years to recognize the issue of running weapon lights on their .40 guns. And I know a lot of Indiana PDs that basically got an F you when it came to troubleshooting their department weapons. Indiana State Police was a big one when they took delivery of their .40s. And then there was the debacle of them delivering new guns to IMPD that would field strip themselves in the holster has quite of few officers wondering if they will function as necessary.

All guns have problems... Glock is no exception. I'll hold my judgement until I actually see their test results.

[LockedBreech]

While this discussion makes me a bit leery about my VP9 purchase (I bought after it had been out for about a year, so early-ish adopter, before they standardized the 9/40 recoil springs), I trust HK to do pretty exhaustive vetting before product release, whereas Sig has some history of rushing product out. I have considered moving my "don't buy" window from 2 years to 3 lately, just to play it extra safe while the ghosts in the machine get figured out the only way they really can, by a lot of shooters hitting high round counts.

[JSGlock34]

SIG appears to rely on the public for beta-testing their designs lately. The MPX had a number of issues and SIG was forced to release a 'GEN2' in short order. The MCX is currently under a recall. The P250 had enough problems that the Dutch police withdrew the pistol from service and cancelled their order. The P320 has had numerous tweaks and changes while in use. There are some reports of accuracy degradation in high round count pistols.

Speaking of the P320, Steve Fischer mentioned during a recent P&S Modcast (about the 5 minute mark below) that some high round count 320s have exhibited accuracy degradation. I wonder if this is something that could have affected the P320 during the FBI testing, especially considering Phase V?

PHASE V - Part A

Each Offeror will have two pistols per class evaluated during this phase. This test will stop when each pistol has reached a total of 20,000 rounds (including rounds fired in all previous phases)...At the conclusion of Phase V, Part A each pistol will repeat PHASE II, Part B, 5-Accuracy Assessment and PHASE II, Part B, 9-Tactical Light Assessment (FBI Provided Light) in order to document any degradation in performance.

I'm not about to claim that Glock is better. The GEN4 rollout was a debacle. But I'm not sure I consider the failure of a small number of preproduction G17Ms in a nonpublic initial issue of a brand new model that the manufacturer hasn't even announced to be the same thing as rolling out a problematic design to the public.

In any case, there is a price for staying on the 'bleeding edge' of technology.

[LittleLebowski]

Does that look like lack of chamber support on the ruptured cases?

[Kirk]

Really?

Most of my Glocks do 2.5" roughly and it seems my DA/SAs (Sig, Beretta, HK, Grandpower) seem to be right in the 2" range. My Canik TP9SF Elite does about 3" at 25.m, but it's a little more ammo sensitive. Haven't played around much with M&Ps, Rugers, etc though.