CCW Live shoot Training Simulator

[oakdalecurtis]

No, the rounds are live, and the gun is your own. It uses a projected image on a paper screen in front of the backstop. A shot timer captures the projected image at the moment of each shot fired (for further review); the hole in the paper reveals where the shot went. As they say: "Your gun, your holster, no excuses."

https://www.sigsaueracademy.com/prod...ement-training

http://www.caps-inc.com/

You're close. The screen is a tightly stretched piece of sheet rubber so the bullet holes close up after penetration. Two invisible laser sensors shining across the screen face actually capture the impact point of the bullet as it goes by. The sensors precisely record bullet placement and time and save the data in the operating computer. When the scenario is replayed, large blue box tags with an bullet placement arrow appear on the screen and give each shot's placement information and time. If you watch the video, you can see the blue tags on one of the replays being demonstrated.

[oakdalecurtis]

Really, it seems "far fetched" that criminals will have armed accomplices nearby? That idea is a common theme in many of the scenarios, and in real life too. A CCW holder that doesn't understand this concept may pay the ultimate price for their oversight.

[BehindBlueI's]

Really, it seems "far fetched" that criminals will have armed accomplices nearby? That idea is a common theme in many of the scenarios, and in real life too.

Armed accomplices not participating in the robbery, but waiting in ambush to engage after the initial gunfight? You think that's common in real life?

[oakdalecurtis]

Armed accomplices not participating in the robbery, but waiting in ambush to engage after the initial gunfight? You think that's common in real life?

The accomplices waiting in the van were not needed at the ATM to hold up one little old lady. And if you kept quiet and did not engage the perp as he walked back to his waiting van, his two accomplices do not attack or ambush you, no need for them to do so. But if you yell at the robber and start a gunfight with the him as he walks back to the van, is it unreasonable to think that his driver and buddy waiting in the van might then open fire on you? The point is, a CCW carrier is not a police office and is not obligated to intervene in a non violent robbery. Playing the hero in such situations can get easily get you killed. Better to note descriptions and license plates and call the police, let them do their job. Think that makes sense?

[TGS]

Armed accomplices not participating in the robbery, but waiting in ambush to engage after the initial gunfight? You think that's common in real life?

Not common, but I think it happened a few times in Chuck Haggard's area with groups of up to 9 bad dudes. I think the more prominent one he mentioned was the home owner successfully repelling a home invasion, giving chase to the threshold of his door (or outside) and getting killed by bad dude(s) set up in an overwatch position on a rooftop with a long gun.

Chuck, please correct or expound as needed.

[BehindBlueI's]

The accomplices waiting in the van were not needed at the ATM to hold up one little old lady. And if you kept quiet and did not engage the perp as he walked back to his waiting van, his two accomplices do not attack or ambush you, no need for them to do so. But if you yell at the robber and start a gunfight with the him as he walks back to the van, is it unreasonable to think that his driver and buddy waiting in the van might then open fire on you? The point is, a CCW carrier is not a police office and is not obligated to intervene in a non violent robbery. Playing the hero in such situations can get easily get you killed. Better to note descriptions and license plates and call the police, let them do their job. Think that makes sense?

I get about 150 robberies booked to me a year. I do not care enough to type a full response on a phone, so for now suffice it to say I don't think the scenario is remotely common. I also don't know that teaching to not intervene, vs when to intervene, is the right answer. YMMV.

[oakdalecurtis]

I get about 150 robberies booked to me a year. I do not care enough to type a full response on a phone, so for now suffice it to say I don't think the scenario is remotely common. I also don't know that teaching to not intervene, vs when to intervene, is the right answer. YMMV.

First Behind, I thank you and respect your service to all of us, even putting your life on the line if necessary. I am amazed that we can find people to do your job. In the trailer, we were training mostly CCW people. I think you would agree that the threshold to intervene is different for a CCW holder than for you as a LEO. You must intervene in situations that a CCW holder may or should not. The scenarios made the trainee THINK about what are his/her options as a situation unfolds, is any kind of intervention necessary, and what can happen if you do intervene in some way, even verbally. As a CCW holder, I was taught essentially not to intervene in criminal situations unless the bad guy shoots or is potentially lethally harming someone else, or directly threatens me or my family with a weapon. Otherwise, watch, absorb, wait, and call a LEO like you when you can. As an LEO, would you agree with those general principles for CCW holders?
thanks again,
cwl

[SoCalDep]

Not common... Not unheard of, and part of the reason it's uncommon is because the lay-off never has to do anything because the robbery is un-resisted.

We've lost at least one off-duty deputy to a lay-off man, and I know of several robberies where accomplices were waiting in vehicles... Since they weren't engaged by anyone we'll never know if they were armed.

I know of one on-duty shooting that involved an multi-suspect (dismounted) ambush on deputies followed by a drive-by from another vehicle (at the initial shooting location) which then engaged deputies at a secondary location (containment spot from the initial shooting). Three shootings in three minutes involving two groups of coordinated bad guys.

Is it far-fetched? I'd say yep, but I've seen enough far-fetched stuff that if it teaches a good lesson and encourages thinking through problems... It's good.

[oakdalecurtis]

Not common... Not unheard of, and part of the reason it's uncommon is because the lay-off never has to do anything because the robbery is un-resisted.

We've lost at least one off-duty deputy to a lay-off man, and I know of several robberies where accomplices were waiting in vehicles... Since they weren't engaged by anyone we'll never know if they were armed.

I know of one on-duty shooting that involved an multi-suspect (dismounted) ambush on deputies followed by a drive-by from another vehicle (at the initial shooting location) which then engaged deputies at a secondary location (containment spot from the initial shooting). Three shootings in three minutes involving two groups of coordinated bad guys.

Is it far-fetched? I'd say yep, but I've seen enough far-fetched stuff that if it teaches a good lesson and encourages thinking through problems... It's good.

In another one of 1200 scenarios, you are clearing a house room by room. You enter the kitchen with whitewashed cabinets. You don't notice that one of the drawer faces is missing. Suddenly flashes of gunshots come out of the dark area where the drawer face had been! You can't see the perp, but you know by now that he is hiding inside the cabinet and shooting at you through the opening created by the missing drawer face! You fire several rounds into the cabinet and the flashes coming out the dark slot stop and you're still alive. You never see the armed criminal. Is this unlikely? Maybe. But you learn that concealment can't protect a bad guy, you don't have to see your target in all situations, and reacting to the whole situation is critical. Cabinets can't stop bullets!

[UNK]

Really, it seems "far fetched" that criminals will have armed accomplices nearby? That idea is a common theme in many of the scenarios, and in real life too. A CCW holder that doesn't understand this concept may pay the ultimate price for their oversight.

Armed accomplices not participating in the robbery, but waiting in ambush to engage after the initial gunfight? You think that's common in real life?

Discussed here https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....l=1#post537270