Beretta Brigadier Slide, advantages over Standard?

[john c]

Other than a dovetailed front sight, does the Beretta Brigadier slide convey any advantage over the standard 92 slide?

I previously read that the Brigadier slide, being heavier, reduced recoil and split times. Is this borne out in testing?

The reason I ask is that it appears that USPSA shooters are favoring lighter slides (with tri-top or similar removal of material from the slide) to reduce the weight of the reciprocating mass on the gun. The idea is that a heavier frame and lighter slide are fastest. This is in direct contrast to the Brigadier concept.

[YVK]

I don't think it is borne out in any testing and I believe the reason for that was just limitations of manufacturing. Ernest Langdon might be able to correct me but I think it took some effort to make Beretta produce Vertec slides with normal width and dovetailed front sight. Lighter slides are generally considered to be advantageous for flatter shooting and it is the reason why we have a Langdon Beretta 92 few lines below.

That said, my personal experience is that you have to be one hell of a shooter to see the difference between the two. I have one B92 with Vertec slide that's listed in classifieds here and I shot it against my Elite II. I could not prove the benefit. However, I don't think it doesn't exist as I can clearly see how pistols with lighter slides in general shoot flatter. It's just the difference for these specific Berettas is not too big for an average shooter. I think this is akin to people at the M/GM level see the difference in how gun cycles with 8 lbs vs 11 lbs recoil spring while most of us won't notice any of that.

[GJM]

I think it is more complicated than "just shooting better."

After shooting specific arrays measurably faster with my Centurion than an Elite II, I discussed this with Ernest and Bill-retta Wilson. It has been a few years, but my recollection is both thought the lighter slide on the Centurion transitioned better, but that the heavier Elite/Brig style slide was an advantage on multiple shots to the same target, and in the case of the Centurion/Elite comparison, the longer sight radius of the Elite was an advantage on lower prob targets.

That is with iron sights, as opposed to an optic. My experience is the MOS 19 tracks better than the 17/34, but I prefer the handling of the full size 17/34 grip. With iron sights, I prefer the 17 over the 19.

Lots of variables depending upon sighting system and the specific targets being shot to anoint one configuration as best.

[OlongJohnson]

Someone tell me if I'm wrong, but I thought the original purpose of the Brig slide was to add some material back where the notches thin it out, and where there were a handful of instances of the slide cracking. The increased head size on the hammer pin was to keep the back of the slide from hitting the shooter in the face if it broke, while the Brig bumps on the slide were to make it stronger so it wouldn't break.

All those broken 92 slides you see around...

[HCM]

Someone tell me if I'm wrong, but I thought the original purpose of the Brig slide was to add some material back where the notches thin it out, and where there were a handful of instances of the slide cracking. The increased head size on the hammer pin was to keep the back of the slide from hitting the shooter in the face if it broke, while the Brig bumps on the slide were to make it stronger so it wouldn't break.

All those broken 92 slides you see around...

Original purpose of the Brig slide was to add weight for .40 cal versions. The weight being to help reduce slide velocity.

.MIL M9s have a pin to catch the back part of the slide if it breaks but it is not exactly common. My understanding is the breakages were actually the result of metallurgy issues. Beretta apparently had a bad batch of slides in the 1990's.

[pastaslinger]

I don't think it is borne out in any testing and I believe the reason for that was just limitations of manufacturing. Ernest Langdon might be able to correct me but I think it took some effort to make Beretta produce Vertec slides with normal width and dovetailed front sight. Lighter slides are generally considered to be advantageous for flatter shooting and it is the reason why we have a Langdon Beretta 92 few lines below.

That said, my personal experience is that you have to be one hell of a shooter to see the difference between the two. I have one B92 with Vertec slide that's listed in classifieds here and I shot it against my Elite II. I could not prove the benefit. However, I don't think it doesn't exist as I can clearly see how pistols with lighter slides in general shoot flatter. It's just the difference for these specific Berettas is not too big for an average shooter. I think this is akin to people at the M/GM level see the difference in how gun cycles with 8 lbs vs 11 lbs recoil spring while most of us won't notice any of that.

At least for me I believe slide weight difference is difficult to feel but recoil spring weight differences are significamt

[Sal Picante]

I don't notice issues. I can split into the .15's with both Beretta slide styles, and the recoil spring is more of a factor than anything else. (Oversprung and the gun slams forward, dipping the FS/disturbing the follow-up)

Iron sight guns recoil back and, unless you're running a bridge-mounted optic & comp, you'll see the sight lift out of the notch. This happens, and is ok. Training gets you used to it...

Just food for thought: 2016 Limited Nationals: Nil ran a stock profile STI slide. Bob Vogel ran a G35 (with his flashlight weight). Dave Sevigny ran a STI with a std slide and a std dust cover.

I know that running extremely reduced loads (Steel challenge), it makes sense to reduce the slide weight for reliability, but that is a bit different than chasing some form of recoil-control gain...

[pastaslinger]

On some guns I could understand dropping the slide weight but Berettas don't feel like they need it, you can already run 11-13 lb springs

When I looked at the SIG Legion 226 I felt the slide moved pretty slowly but tracked well. I believe they use 18lb springs. This is a case where I think the slide is maybe too heavy (I don't remember what the slide weight is).

[john c]

Thanks, everyone, for your replies. It sounds like, for 9mm at least, that the Brigadier isn't worth the premium over the standard model.

[GJM]

Thanks, everyone, for your replies. It sounds like, for 9mm at least, that the Brigadier isn't worth the premium over the standard model.

Which "standard model?" Brig gives you a dovetailed front sight, which is important.