38 Short Colt in a J Frame

[Eastex]

I thought about posting this in the ammo forum but I'm thinking purely for J Frame usage so here it goes. I've been reading up on 38 Short Colt which is basically a 9mm length 38 Special. (All just ballpark type measurements). From what I read some of the competition guys were using it at least until the 9mm competition revolvers started taking over in their 38 Special revolvers. The main advantage was faster reloads when using them in a moon clip from what I gathered. Other things I read mentioned being able to get higher pressures with less powder due to the shortened case and easier extraction than the longer Special cases.
Those things made me think of my moon clip cut 642. I don't like the moon clips because the rounds are so long that they "pinch in" at the ends and basically make Speed Strips much faster for me. I like the idea of the shorter rounds for that reason. Ejection would also seem to helped especially with the shorter J Frame ejection rod. 38 Short moon clips might even be able to use the new Rogers moon clip holders made for the 9 mm LCR.
The 9mm LCR also made me wonder about this. There is some data to show that the shorter 9mm round effectively increases barrel length in the LCR since the cylinder it used is basically the same length as the 357 magnum version of the LCR. This shows up in its being able to basically mimic the velocity in similar sized auto loaders despite the loss at the cylinder gap. So my thinking is that the difference between a 38 Special overall length and a 38 Short Colt overall length would effectively add to the barrel length in my 642 at least as far as velocity would be concerned. Velocity in those very short barrels seems to be key in getting penetration and hollow point expansion.
The big con to all of this is obviously that no one is making defensive type loads in 38 Short. Also there isn't any "certified" load data for hotter rounds, just lots of guys on the Internet posting their recipes. Still I find myself looking at Starline brass who makes very reputable stuff and they do make 38 Short Colt brass. I may just have to break down and get a chronograph and start playing around with it. I could always make some bunny fart practice rounds with I suppose.
If you could safely load it to get defensive round type velocities and if it was truly faster to reload with and if someone made commercially reliable rounds it could be another option. It could also be just a big case of ifs and buts.
Now comes the part where I ask y'all to point out the obvious holes in my thinking that I've overlooked.


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[Stephanie B]

Nobody is going to make hot-ish defense loads for .38 Short Colt because they would be worried about someone blowing up their 1880s low-budget revolver with one.

If you wanted to make bunny-fart loads, why not stick with .38 Special and Trail Boss?

[RevolverRob]

I guess I'm confused on what you really want the .38 Short Colt here. Is it because you have the moon-clip 642?

You can run the J without moon-clips, rights? If so, just run nickel-cased .38 special rounds. The short ejector rod of the J can case brass cases to stick, but I've never, in like some 2500-rounds of nickel cased defensive ammo, had the nickel cases stick in the chambers. They are a little slicker than brass and that just aids in extraction. Even in extended sessions where I've fired things like a couple of hundred dirty wadcutters and had to wipe the cylinder face and forcing cone or suffer bind, have I had issues with nickel-case extraction.

If you can't run the J without moonclips, just swap it for a 642 Enhanced Action model and call it a day.

Also, my understand on the short-colt loads is its a matter of speeding up reloads over any other reason. But maybe Caleb can chime in on this one, because I haven't done a lot of work with them.

[Lester Polfus]

I occasionally go down rabbit trails like this, and have spent lots of time and money chasing stuff like this.

I've learned to ask myself this question:

Would my time and money be better spent on x project, or on buying the equivalent $$ amount of practice ammo, and spending the equivalent amount of time drying firing/range practice.

Every now and then, my answer is "yes" but usually it's "no."

[Jim Watson]

There sure isn't any .38 Short Colt +P ammo or pressure tested load data out there.
But consider, if you want .38 Special +P ballistics out of a smaller case, it will have to run at higher pressure. Like, say 9mm P pressure, about a time and a half .38 +P.

[Eastex]

I occasionally go down rabbit trails like this, and have spent lots of time and money chasing stuff like this.

I like chasing rabbits, I hardly ever get as far as spending money. Westworlds season is done and until Santa (hopefully) brings me the new Frank Hamer book this is what I do while my wife watches Hallmark Christmas movies.



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[Malamute]

Ive been kicking around the idea of fooling with them also, but only as extra-light loads for fun shooting.

Reading on the castboolits site, they've been called "38 CBs" when used in rifles for yard plinking or pest loads, and great for letting beginners get their feet wet with centerfire 38 pistols or rifles. Someone mentioned their wife only liked shooting the 38 SC loads in her J. She'd load up with better stuff for leaving in the gun, but didn't like shooting heavier loads much. I think theyd probably be good for shooting in airweight guns for general shooting and practice.

[Velo Dog]

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/16...ead-round-nose

This Magtech round uses a short case to propel a 125 gr lead round nose at 686 fps for 130 ft. lbs. of muzzle energy.

[Eastex]

Getting off the revolver trail for a second, I'd love to find something along the lines of a old Stevens Crackshot that fired 38 Special. I've read where people have converted Martini Henry Cadets into 38 and that'd be great but it sounds like a pretty expensive "fun gun". Nothing against all the great lever actions out there, I'd just like to find something a little odd and different. 38 Special is such a easy and cheap round to reload it just seems like a shame not to have it in a rifle too.
One other thing about the SC that seemed appealing was how it would be almost impossible to double charge it. That regular Special case has tons of room in it and Trail Boss is the only thing that I've seen that will overfill it in a double charge.


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[RevolverRob]

Getting off the revolver trail for a second, I'd love to find something along the lines of a old Stevens Crackshot that fired 38 Special. I've read where people have converted Martini Henry Cadets into 38 and that'd be great but it sounds like a pretty expensive "fun gun". Nothing against all the great lever actions out there, I'd just like to find something a little odd and different. 38 Special is such a easy and cheap round to reload it just seems like a shame not to have it in a rifle too.
One other thing about the SC that seemed appealing was how it would be almost impossible to double charge it. That regular Special case has tons of room in it and Trail Boss is the only thing that I've seen that will overfill it in a double charge.


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T/C Contender?

Also they have an H&R HandiRifle in .357 Magnum - http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Rifles/handiRifle.asp

-R