Uneven seating depths and OAL's with .38 sp +P Win Ranger T 130gr Bonded JHP

[deputyG23]

The rounds I described earlier look like yours. I intend to chrono some in a few days just to satisfy my own curiosity.

[Doug MacRay]

I think you need to measure it to see if it's really significant. Here's why. This morning I took my dial calipers to Win .45 Ranger, Rem 9mm GD, Fed 9mm HST, and Rem .38 LSWCHP. Based on measurements, not eyeballing, the difference in random samples of each was .007-.010". The HST, which we all agree is fine ammo, was at the large end of that.

Based on years of reloading ammo, .010" one way or the other won't make a bit of difference in a revolver. I have had cycled 147gr 9mm factory ammo end up .030-040" shorter, and in that cartridge that's a problem. In your RA38B, unless there is no crimp at all, I think what you're looking at is the acceptable (to them) tolerance.

I'm not as worried about the uneven seating depth as I am the canted seating. When one side of the cannelure is clearly seated deeper than the other I start to get uneasy. I'm also more worried about the possibility that the seating is loose on some rounds and the deeper set rounds are the result of rough handling. I don't want any of these rounds jumping forward in the cylinder due to recoil. And to be honest, I'm hesitant to let this kind of QC slide. If people don't complain Winchester is unlikely to improve their QC. I just checked my Federal and Remington .38 loads and they look flawless, even the cheap Rem 125gr. SJHP +P rounds. Those are the cheapest rounds I can buy locally for bulk practice ammo (purchased at Wal-Mart) and their QC appears top notch. And to be clear, it's not like I inspect every bullet I buy with a magnifying glass. These Winchester Ranger loads were so inconsistent I noticed it when loading them into the cylinder of a j-frame.

[Tabasco]

I bought a couple 20 round boxes of the 130 gr. non +P "D" (Defend) at a regional sporting goods chain. They pretty much look like that regarding seating depth variation.
A few even have dents in the bullet and or case.

Looks like a QC issue.

[Hambo]

I'm not as worried about the uneven seating depth as I am the canted seating. When one side of the cannelure is clearly seated deeper than the other I start to get uneasy. I'm also more worried about the possibility that the seating is loose on some rounds and the deeper set rounds are the result of rough handling.

I don't think there's any rough handling involved. Moving a bullet that's crimped into brass requires serious force in either direction. For handling to move them there would have to be almost zero crimp. If the bullets are truly at an angle to the brass either they were seated that way (although that should leave at least a small bulge or wrinkle) or the case mouths are not trimmed square.

If they do anything other than issue a refund I'd be interested in what Winchester says about the ammo.

[deputyG23]

Quickly checked a box from lot 86KB32. There appear to be slight variations in seating depth. The cannelure is visible on all fifty rounds by varying degrees.
I plan to chrono some of this Christmas week to see if they fire with a reasonable degree of uniformity. If they do, they will be GTG for carry. If not, I will contact Winchester.

I got to chronograph this ammo in four different .38 revolvers today along with some recent production 135 grain Speer GD as a comparison. Temperature 49 degrees. Each shot string was three rounds.
SW 442 1 7/8" barrel
Speer GD Average 794 Extreme spread 21 Standard Deviation 14
Winchester Ranger Average 788 ES 38 SD 20

Colt Detective special 2" barrel mid '70s vintage
Speer GD Avg 874 ES 49 SD 34
Winchester Ranger Avg 793 ES 53 SD 37

SW M&P 2" ca. 1948
Speer GD Avg 904 ES 47 SD 25
Winchester Ranger Avg 823 ES 43 SD 22

SW 64-1 4" barrel
Speer GD Avg 989 ES 65 SD 32
Winchester Ranger Avg 906 ES 66 SD 35

Observations:

There are some interesting variations in velocity between the two brands in two different 2" barreled revolvers.
The Speer was much faster than expected in the 4"gun. I may load the Bride's 4" M10 with these.

[Poconnor]

This is disappointing because I wanted to stock up on 38 special. I'm not surprised though. Demand has hurt quality control for most ammunition.

[Doug MacRay]

ALCON,

I talked to Beth at Olin and she suggested getting a refund over exchange on this round because she's not privy to production schedules and can't guarantee a turn-around time on an exchange. For what it's worth...

[olstyn]

Each shot string was three rounds.

Sample sizes that small render the SD numbers essentially meaningless, especially given that we're talking about revolvers, where each chamber in the cylinder is not necessarily identical. That's not to say that what you've done is useless, but I don't think I'd rely on that data as a means of judging ammo consistency.

[Bigghoss]

I just bought a couple boxes of that stuff and then found this thread. Sure enough seating deapths were all over the place. The store I bought it let me exchange it for some Hornady critical defense.

[Kyle Reese]

Still no follow up from Winchester.


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